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View Diary: Democratic Party Attacks Marriage Equality Candidate; Progressive and GLBT Outrage in Atlanta (107 comments)

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  •  Speaking of hyperbole.... (0+ / 0-)

    Don't worry. I live in Illinois. My vote doesn't matter much for President. Senator, Governor, and other offices though are a different story. It would serve Democrats well not to patronize people that could vote for them if they actually delivered on things instead of empty words. The Matthew Shepard Act was a beginning, and not an end meant to give credence to all of you saying us LGBT people should just shut up and vote Democrat.

    I don't think you all understand how insulting you are. Whatever.

    "The greatest thing you'll ever do is learn to love and be loved in return"

    by Liberalindependent28 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 11:14:48 AM PST

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    •  I meant no offense. (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry if I offended.

      The "vote Democrat" part is right. The "shut up" part is wrong. You should loudly demand full equality. Even though I am straight, I should also loudly demand your full equality.

      It would serve Democrats well not to patronize people that could vote for them if they actually delivered on things instead of empty words.

      Again, I agree. Mostly, anyway. In the short term, some Dems would lose their seats to Repubs if they supported gay equality. In the long term, it's smart to be on the right side of history.

      P.S. A tactical point -- I think the main way to get mainstream opposition to gay marriage to collapse is for middle-of-the-road straights to see gays living openly in committed relationships, raising kids, joining the PTA, etc. It's easy to oppose rights for some imaginary jerk in one's head. It's hard to oppose rights for one's friend. And I see civil unions as a way to get those committed gay relationships into the mainstream. Where full marriage equality is within reach, great, grab it. But where it isn't, take what you can and build on it.

      "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

      by HeyMikey on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 02:37:48 PM PST

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      •  I understand what you are proposing, but (0+ / 0-)

        please tell that to Gay couples who are in their 70's and have been together longer then most Straight couples marriages even last. Do you know how to tell them their relationship is not worthy of full recognition and equality in rights with a civil marriage because too many 'middle of the road' Heterosexuals see civil unions as wonderful?

        Let me say this...if civil unions or domestic partnerships are so wonderful then why don't Heterosexual couples enter them? That is because they do not confer the 1,308 federal rights that a civil marriage does with the accompanying hundred some odd state rights. Straight couples probably don't even realize they are given that many rights because they take it completely for granted due to it being automatically afforded to them.

        Yeah, I'll settle for civil unions when other Straight couples are willing to settle for that too.

        "The greatest thing you'll ever do is learn to love and be loved in return"

        by Liberalindependent28 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 02:52:01 PM PST

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        •  Don't tell -- ASK gay couples in their 70s. (0+ / 0-)

          Dear Gay Couple in your 70s -- which would you rather have? (a) Civil union now, giving you the right to visit your partner in the hospital, make your partner's emergency care and end of life decisions, plan your partner's funeral, inherit your partner's property; or (b) none of that now, but full civil marriage 20 years from now?

          I am not suggesting you "settle for" civil unions, and I wish you would stop mischaracterizing my position. Of course you should have full marriage equality. (What is that, the 4th or 5th time I've said it now?) The question is, what do you want in the meantime? Something or nothing?

          if civil unions or domestic partnerships are so wonderful

          Again, hyperbole to deflect the truth. Obviously I don't think CUs are "wonderful." As I said several posts ago when you said they were "separate and unequal," and suggested I research them:

          I've already done the research. I already agree.

          You point out CUs:

          do not confer the 1,308 federal rights that a civil marriage does with the accompanying hundred some odd state rights

          Federal rights: Yes, thanks to DOMA, there's nothing a state can do about federal rights. Obama wants to repeal DOMA, but opposes marriage equality. Wanna boot Obama from office and bring in McCain? (Yes, I fully agree it's past time for Obama to keep that promise.)

          State rights: you're wrong, at least in some states. Some state courts that have ruled on the issue have required civil unions with ALL the rights of marriage. (All that federal law allows a state to grant.)

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 03:27:18 PM PST

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          •  This is so frustrating. (0+ / 0-)

            Like I said, change your marriage to a civil union if you are in one or don't get one at all if you haven't yet, and then tell me how how civil unions are equal in rights. See how you are treated if your Wife got hit by a car in NJ and then be told you can't see her in her room there because it's only a 'civil union'. That's LITERALLY what has happened to Gay couples in NJ who have civil unions where they were denied hospital visitation even though they were civil unioned. This is why DOMA needs to be repealed and Marriage Equality needs to be federal law through Congress or a SCOTUS decision.

            All you offer is fearmongering against Republicans who are irrelevant. Instead of talking to me why not write Democrats and tell them to get moving on eliminating DOMA? They haven't even repealed DADT yet so how about that? I don't think Democrats understand how rude of an awakening 2010 is going to be for them if they don't start enacting what they promised in a bunch of areas.

            "The greatest thing you'll ever do is learn to love and be loved in return"

            by Liberalindependent28 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 03:45:47 PM PST

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            •  Having it both ways. Yes, it IS frustrating. (0+ / 0-)

              Republicans who are irrelevant. . . . I don't think Democrats understand how rude of an awakening 2010 is going to be for them

              If Repubs are irrelevant, then yeah, we can afford to be absolutists. But if Dems are in for a rude awakening, then Repubs are relevant. Take your pick, but you can't have both.

              DOMA needs to be repealed and Marriage Equality needs to be federal law through Congress or a SCOTUS decision.

              Yep. I agree. Until that happens, what do you want?

              Frustration: don't confuse message with messenger. Don't confuse tactical differences with enmity.

              "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

              by HeyMikey on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 04:19:37 PM PST

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