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View Diary: I support More Troops In Afghanistan (127 comments)

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  •  I am a liberal Hawk (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happy camper, ETF, Jane Lew

    I deal in reality, we were attacked
    Americans died, we retaliated against those who attacked this country. The battled was won but victory was not secured. It was not the fault of the Troops, the American people or the Afghans, it was the fault of an administration that refused to listen to reason and instead listened to flawed ideology. This Country had to wait 8 years for a President who was willing and able to make the hard unpopular decisions. THAT is why I support him.

    I also said we needed a surge in Iraq in August of 2005, not because I approved of the war, but because we needed the surge to end hostilities. If it had been done then MAYBE the outcome would have been different.

    I am already known as VirtualTruth, times have changed and so has my cause. The Far left can not become the new radical far right

    by Liberal Reality Check on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 05:47:20 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Iraq is still a major fuck-up last time I (3+ / 0-)

      checked.

    •  No, you didn't. (4+ / 0-)

      we retaliated against those who attacked this country

      That's simply a lie.

      Saudis attacked this country. Never a word was spoken against them. Iraq was a lie. Even Afghanistan was a lie.

      neca politicos omnes; deus suos agnoscet.

      by khereva on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 05:51:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They were operating out of Afghanistan... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        balancedscales, happy camper

        Your statement is like saying a naturalized American originating from Greece who commits a terrorist act on our soil warrants a military attack on Greece.

        •  Strawman. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          One Pissed Off Liberal

          Didn't say "military attack."
          Said "not a word was spoken against them."

          And it's just as idiotic to claim that a Greek terrorist originating from Greece warrants a military attack on Greece.

          Terrorism is and always has been a police, not a military, matter. The only times it has been successfully combatted have been when it has been so treated.

          As you already know.

          neca politicos omnes; deus suos agnoscet.

          by khereva on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 06:18:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The fundamental flaw ... (3+ / 0-)
          in reasoning comes from believing that the attacks on 9/11 required a military response.  They did not. No state attacked us.  No uniformed army attacked us.  Nobody capable of surrendering attacked us.  In fact, the terrorists alleged to have flown the planes were trained to fly right here in the USA - but nobody was suggesting we attack and occupy ourselves as a terrorist training ground.

          When you don't have a military problem, you cannot have a military solution - which is where we are right now.  

          There is no military solution.

          •  That certainly is your "opinion"... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            balancedscales, Everest42

            ...doesn't exactly constitute a statement of fact adhered to by this or any other government.

            •  I can think of one war that resulted from an (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              balancedscales

              overreaction to a terrorist incident, World War One, a response to the assassination of an Austrian archduke and his wife (and there too the terrorist incident probably just furnished a pretext for a war that was already planned).

              I wouldn't say the starting of World War One is a very good precedent for anything.

              The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

              by lysias on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:36:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Well ... no. You're wrong. (0+ / 0-)
              It certainly is NOT my "opinion".

              It is a FACT that no State attacked us.

              It is a FACT that no uniformed army attacked us.

              It is a FACT that no State can surrender to us.

              It is a FACT that the terrorists who flew planes into the WTC towers were trained on US soil.

              It is a FACT that nobody is suggesting the proper response to 9/11 would have been to invade and occupy ourselves as a terrorist training ground.

              And it is a FACT that when you don't have a military "problem", you can't have a military "solution".

              9/11 was NOT a military problem.  We know that because we have the most powerful military in the world, and if our military were ten times the size it was in the months leading up to 9/11, that would not have prevented it.  To suggest that the events of 9/11 were a military problem is to have no understanding whatsoever of what a military problem is.

              It's not my "opinion".  There are nothing but facts in my entire post.

          •  You are confusing military attack with (4+ / 0-)

            invasion and nation building.

            We were attacked, a swift and precise response ending as it should have in Tora Bora with the Capture or Death of Bin Laden with the withdrawal of Combatants and some post war reconstruction was the appropriate response.

            This however was not what occurred, unfortunately the result is far from being victory or success.

            I am already known as VirtualTruth, times have changed and so has my cause. The Far left can not become the new radical far right

            by Liberal Reality Check on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 06:45:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Point taken ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              balancedscales
              I was not suggesting that we couldn't have had some proportional response targeted directly at those we suspected of being the perpetrators.  When the stagecoach or the train has been robbed, you round up the posse and go after them.  But you don't decide to occupy every inch of the frontier.  And if you don't catch the bad guys before they cross the border into Mexico (Pakistan) then you turn around and come home.  But trying to turn the canyon where the outlaws conspired into a shining city on the hill is, by definition, outside the scope of the posse.

              And thus, doomed to failure.

      •  good luck with that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jane Lew

        I will not condemn an entire people for the actions of a few.

        I am already known as VirtualTruth, times have changed and so has my cause. The Far left can not become the new radical far right

        by Liberal Reality Check on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 06:01:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  You are delusional. Get help. nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      One Pissed Off Liberal
    •  The price for stupidity... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OleHippieChick, xysea

      The price for stupidity is failure.   We fought the Afghan war stupidly and we lost.   We should recognize that and go home.

    •  It's unworkable. Here's why: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      One Pissed Off Liberal

      We need the Afghan people, and their Leader (Karzai) to come to grips with unity and build an army so that we can remove ours.

      1.  The corruption is very deep there.  It is unclear even that Karzai can be taken at his word.
      1.  The country is split.  The warlords are constantly at war (go figure!) with each other in civil disputes.  Karzai isn't even good or effective at getting them to work together.

      If Karzai fails, and there's every reason to believe he will and is failing to do what needs to be done right now, then what?

      Do we stay there forever?  As an occupying force?

      When do we back out and say we can't do anymore?

      Afghanistan is well on its way to being a failed nation state.  If we back out, it will certainly fail.  But if we stay, even if we throw billions of dollars and soldier's lives into the problem, it still likely won't reach the desired outcome.  Stability has to come from inside, through a willingness or desire of the people (and Karzai and the warlords) to create it.

      I've seen no evidence that this is the case.

      *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

      by xysea on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 06:38:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They all say that! (0+ / 0-)

      All losers say "If only I had done it right I would have won".   That is true but so what?

      We lost, it is time to go!

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