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View Diary: Quick-Fixing Jobs Is a Snare and a Delusion (180 comments)

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  •  asdf (11+ / 0-)

    So, it sounds like no government jobs programs will even be considered in this so-called jobs bill.

    Which means to me, that this isn't going to solve things. Not for me, and not for a lot of people like me.

    Yes, this is disappointing.  Because there ain't no way in a depressed economy private employers (mostly small businesses, mind you) are going to hire people without some serious incentives.  That leaves the govt as employer of last resort.  If he can't see that possibility (probability?) then the Jobs Summit is just a fancy luncheon for luminaries.

    *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

    by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 11:30:29 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I wonder what the impact will be if they (3+ / 0-)

      approach this from strictly a legislative POV.

      Say, strengthen/eliminate the H1B program, require (per you, love it) those getting American tax breaks to keep jobs in America.  Eliminate the benefits of tax havens.  

      From a legislative POV, I think some impact could be had.  Long term impact?

      Personally, I also want to see a jobs program ala upgrades to our energy delivery system.  But some legislative tinkering would be nice!

    •  On The Other Side (0+ / 0-)

      Creating government jobs doesn't solve the long term job issue, which is the overriding problem.

      In my opinion (and I have made this comment here in the past) there is no answer to this problem.

      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

      by superscalar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 11:58:54 AM PST

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      •  I think that Obama's promise to create (0+ / 0-)

        a whole bunch of green jobs could help.  I think that retraining funds for the unemployed could help.

        *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

        by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:00:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Define 'Whole Bunch' (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brooke In Seattle

          1.) The number of jobs will not be enough, even in the rosiest of scenarios

          2.) The workforce cannot be retrained in a short enough time to make a difference even if enough jobs could be created.

          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

          by superscalar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:04:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, I would have to say he hasn't (0+ / 0-)

            been specific about the amount, but didn't he talk about job creation?

            So, we're just going to let people run out of unemployment and go homeless, is that it?  We shouldn't try to do anything?

            *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

            by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:09:55 PM PST

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            •  I'm Not Saying That (2+ / 0-)

              We shouldn't try to do anything?

              What I am saying is that the same mind set is a work here that was at work in March 2008

              1.) We must do something
              2.) This is something

              Ergo, we must do this

              What the U.S. needs is to create a massive amount of jobs which create new wealth not simply redistribute wealth, and which are sustainable over the long term. Those who are running around parroting the talking points of 'green jobs' 'infrastructure jobs', etc. only ignore that none of these talking points address that fundamental problem, because none of these types of job creation ideas will do that, even if taken together.

              <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

              by superscalar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:16:53 PM PST

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              •  I see. So what jobs do you think (0+ / 0-)

                President Obama should create and where?

                *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

                by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:42:54 PM PST

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                •  President Obama Cannot Create Jobs (0+ / 0-)

                  Furthermore, the president is a prisoner of policies which pre-date him by decades -- policies which he, at this point, is virtually powerless to really change or affect in any meaningful way.

                  <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                  by superscalar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:47:28 PM PST

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                  •  I see. So, then I ask you. (0+ / 0-)

                    Are we to do nothing? You say we shouldn't, but you knock down each thing said.  Any ideas?

                    *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

                    by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:50:01 PM PST

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                    •  No, I Have No Solution To This Problem (0+ / 0-)

                      Any ideas?

                      Do you? In other words, I believe that the problem is as I have stated it

                      What the U.S. needs is to create a massive amount of jobs which create new wealth not simply redistribute wealth, and which are sustainable over the long term.

                      Do you have an solution to this problem?

                      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                      by superscalar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:54:57 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Why won't the green jobs and infrastructure jobs (0+ / 0-)

                        do this?  Why won't boosting entrepeneurship do this?  Why won't retraining people do this?

                        There are many up and coming job markets, and the environmental sector is one of them.  Several partnerships could be made with outfits from other countries, if need be, to bring new wealth into America.

                        It's not all dead end hopelessness unless you believe it is.  Then, it most surely will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

                        *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

                        by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:57:11 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  If you had been paying attention... (0+ / 0-)

                        for the last 3 decades, you would have noticed the most massive redistribution of wealth in the US at least since Emanicpation.  Unfortunately, it was upward.

                        There's no such thing as a free market!

                        by Albanius on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:13:11 PM PST

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                      •  Inherent in this is the notion... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...that "redistribution" is off limits.

                        Perhaps that's the root problem. Once the Money Changers have seized the assets (and make no mistake: the "bubbles" have been opportunities for the richest among us to to take our distressed assets at pennies on the dollar), far too many of us have decided that they have some inalieable right to permanent economic overlord status.

                        I am soooo not looking forward to living in some hand built slum near a garbage heap while the Money Changers decide which of us will be favored with some intermittent day work....

                        "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

                        by Egalitare on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:54:43 PM PST

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              •  I object to this characterisation: (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Meteor Blades, Egalitare

                Those who are running around parroting the talking points of 'green jobs' 'infrastructure jobs', etc.

                 

                That's actually pretty rude.  If you don't agree with me, fine, but to imply I can't or won't think for myself is unfair, to put it mildly.

                *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

                by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:45:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  As for re-training, some people (0+ / 0-)

            can be re-trained in as little as a year, depending on the program.  Since the CW lately seems to be a depressed job market through 2012, I disagree that funds for training won't help.  

            Even if it took 2 years to re-train some, they could have jobs in 2011.  That's something.

            *this space available for lease if you have something appropriately witty for me to share*

            by xysea on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:54:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Another lesson from Harrington (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              xysea, Egalitare

              During WWII, when much of the industrial workforce went to the military, women and longterm unemployed went to work in the factories, and they built planes that flew.

              Putting people to prodective work is not that hard when there is sufficent political will.

              There's no such thing as a free market!

              by Albanius on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:05:05 PM PST

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          •  Unless ALL jobs are green by the end of 21st C (0+ / 0-)

            There will be a surplus of jobs for gravediggers.

            There's no such thing as a free market!

            by Albanius on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:00:56 PM PST

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      •  "No answer" means... (0+ / 0-)

        ...things simply haven't gotten bad enough yet, right?

        Perhaps we need to wait until the numbers get worse than the early 1930s before enough people figure out that "Normal" is never coming back.

        "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

        by Egalitare on Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:34:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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