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View Diary: Countdown with Keith Olbermann - Dec. 4, 2009 (146 comments)

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  •  Just a couple questions for Kos land (2+ / 0-)
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    CityLightsLover, AnnaMolly

    I read this site all the time and i just want to double check a couple things

    So  people that disagree with our community leader for specified reasons are racist?  Because thats what I keep seeing, and seems a little presumtive.

    Second, is the only way to control health care with a public option that costs 90 billion a year (yea right)? So if they removed caps and prexisting conditions, removed state barriars and anti trust laws to allow for any insurance anywhere, that wouldnt control costs? I mean I may be wrong but aren't there non-profit insurance companies that provide fantastic health plans that everyone would be able to buy, thus creating a tougher market place? Also that would allow for affordability and would remove that whole insurance or jail snafu. Just a couple of questions.

    Oh, and everyone could stop debating whether the government should pay for abortions or not, which would make it easier to pass and skip the government dollars for abortion argument, which can be debated another day.

    •  A gentle reminder (3+ / 0-)
      1. Disagreement doesn't make one a racist. Using racist slurs or implying that somebody's race affects their position or ability is racist.
      1. Umm, no. Single payer would be way better. The ideas your talking about not so much
      1. As to abortion? No, debate is what this site is all about. But don't just think stating an opinion is debate. Be prepared to back your position with facts.
      1. This isn't an open thread/diary please ask questions like this in one of those.

      I stand by the truth, that way I don't have to be near any Republicans.

      by ontheleftcoast on Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 11:33:40 PM PST

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    •  A couple of thoughts in return ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diogenes2008, CityLightsLover

      No, the public option is not the only way.  Single-payer would be better, and the non-profit model you refer to is how I understand that they do it in Europe.  You've hit the exact issue on the head, though, which is profit.  Until profit is taken out of the equation, greed will always play some role in health care decisions.  Any true reform has to include some kind of non-profit component, either public or private.  

      On the abortion question, if you mean take all mention of abortion out of the bills and take it up later, you may be right.  It was only brought up now as a distraction anyway.  But if you mean allow the Stupak Amendment or something similar to be inserted and debate it later, I think that's short-sighted.  The net effect of Stupak would likely be that no insurance companies would offer abortion coverage, effectively making abortion illegal and end-running Roe v. Wade.

      On your first point, I don't know what you're talking about specifically, but I'd have to say no off the top of my head, subject to the caveats that ontheleftcoast gave you.  I do acknowledge, however, that people often make these accusations as a handy shorthand for saying I don't have a response to your point; it's akin to pulling out the word "troll" as a response to someone with whom you disagree but are either too lazy to answer or can't think of an answer.  They are both ad hominems.  This is true even where the person to whom you are responding has been rude or impolite. That doesn't give YOU license to call them names.  

      Finally, I don't agree with ontheleftcoast that you should be confined to an open thread to ask your questions. I've never understood that convention, and I don't agree with it. I don't hang out at Kos in general, but I do occasionally read other threads, and this is by far the most interesting and entertaining group of people you could find here on a consistent basis.  If we can't tolerate people asking a few questions from time to time, then there's something wrong with us.  On the other hand, being here comes with a price, as I learn myself from time to time.  Which means being a positive contributor to the discussion -- not necessarily a fan girl or boy -- and trying to keep negativity to a minimum.  This is a community within a community.  I think CLL would welcome you here as long as you remember that.  

      Just my two bits' worth.  

      ... defragmenting the attic ...

      by AnnaMolly on Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 05:56:51 AM PST

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    •  Let's See What I Can Do (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diogenes2008, AnnaMolly

      to answer your questions - welcome, by the way. I absolutely do not claim to be an expert in these or any other areas.

      So  people that disagree with our community leader for specified reasons are racist?

      I'm not sure what you mean by "community leader."

      Second, is the only way to control health care with a public option that costs 90 billion a year (yea right)?

      The current public option provision in the Senate HCR bill is nearly watered down to the point of ineffectiveness, so, no, their version wouldn't control cost much. Removing single - payer from the discussion at the outset removed the best chance for TRUE cost containment. The House version of the public option is better. This subject will be a big point of contention in the conference committee.

      Oh, and everyone could stop debating whether the government should pay for abortions or not,

      I don't understand why the current & long - standing Hyde Amendment isn't good enough for the likes of Stupak, Pitts, & Nelson. President Obama said clearly this is a health care bill - not an abortion bill. And, he would not sign any HCR bill that would change the current status quo of abortion availibility.

      Hope this helps - a bit! Just my 2 cents' worth...that & 50 cents won't buy a regular 'ol cup of coffee.

      Dems, get some guts, or we'll KICK YER BUTTS!

      by CityLightsLover on Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 09:27:29 AM PST

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