Skip to main content

View Diary: I am a Democrat because I am a Christian (131 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I don't think these values come from the OT (0+ / 0-)

    Jews are generally much more secular than christians.

    •  But I think we're saying two different things (3+ / 0-)

      I do not think, as a Jewish person (As of course I can only speak for myself) my 'values' come from the OT, however I believe in much of the OT. My comment is based on the acceptance of the OT more than using it as the sole basis for 'value' formation.

      As G_d is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly

      by BFSkinner on Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 05:24:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right, because when one tries to use such books (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        as a basis for one's political values it is difficult, and won't result in a progressive message. I am not saying that the culture of many Christians, Jews, etc. can not be progressive, but that values derived from the holy books as a whole are not.

    •  I think you're wrong, and I think I see why. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BFSkinner, thethinveil

      I've never seen anything to back up the notion that "Jews are generally more secular than Christians."

      However, I can easily believe that most Jews identify themselves as, or are seen as Jews, regardless of their worship practices.

      And Christians who identify or are seen as "Christians"  are a particular, more fervent subset of Christians.

      I'm a lapsed Catholic, prolly agnostic if you press me. Am I a Christian?  Arguably a toss-up.

      If I were Jewish, I suspect, there would be no question in my mind.

      •  Here's some evidence (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Elwood Dowd, thethinveil

        Jews are less than half as likely as christians to be certain in the existence of God:

        •  That's evidence of my point. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          "who describe themselves as Christian or Jewish"

          •  How is such a god gap not evidence of Jews (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            being more secular? If you don't think it is, what would you consider a reasonable metric? Perhaps there are statistics on it.

            •  To be more clear: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              If you ask me, the lapsed Catholic, am I a Christian or  unaffiliated? I would say "Unaffiliated." That tends to drain the "Christian" pool of the less devout.

              If I were Jewish, maybe with grandparents dead in the Holocaust, I would never say Unaffiliated. That poll is not drained of skeptics in that same manner.

              How to get "good numbers"? I don't know; maybe include 80% of those not attending weekly services in the "Christian" number, since their households were probably attendees one or two generations back.

              •  I don't know if that's true, but it very well (0+ / 0-)

                could be. However, the skeptic poll is not large enough that the difference could be so wide without those of Jewish backgrounds being much more inclined to be skeptical.

                •  Sorry for the typo; I meant skeptic pool (0+ / 0-)
                •  The skeptic pool is HUGE. (0+ / 0-)

                  My local church had eight packed Sunday Masses when I was a kid. It's down to three sparse Masses now, though the town is bigger. The weekly worshippers, here anyway, are shrinking.

                  •  I'm talking about using the statistics (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Elwood Dowd

                    Take the skeptics, those who aren't certain there's a god, at 42%. Only 15% or so of the populous identify as having no religion.
                    Lets assume that all 15% are skeptics for the sake of argument, even though some of them are certain there is a god. Add those 15% to the approximately 76% who say they are christians and calculate a new skeptic ratio of the pack. It comes out to around 55% of the christians and non believers believing there absolutely is a god, still far above the Jewish number. Clearly Jews are more secular. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

                    •  I'm entirely confused by this (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      and I'm losing interest, sorry.

                      "Secular" does not mean "atheist." Your numbers may all add up consistently to support what you mean - but I don't understand what you mean.

                      •  By skeptic I mean those who don't believe (0+ / 0-)

                        there is absolutely a god. This is 70% in the Jewish community and less than 30% in the Christian community according to the survey I presented earlier. I took the 15% or so who say they have no religion, made them Christian skeptics, and added them to the Christian community. This reduced the believers to around 55%, still far more than the Jewish 30%. Therefore your hypothesis that those who don't identify as religious are more likely to be Christian than the population as a whole still does not come close to making up the secular gap. Does this explanation help?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (136)
  • Community (67)
  • Elections (26)
  • Environment (25)
  • Culture (24)
  • Media (23)
  • Science (22)
  • Law (22)
  • Civil Rights (22)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (21)
  • Josh Duggar (20)
  • Labor (19)
  • Economy (19)
  • Marriage Equality (17)
  • Rescued (17)
  • Ireland (17)
  • Memorial Day (16)
  • Bernie Sanders (16)
  • Republicans (16)
  • Education (16)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site