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View Diary: I am a Democrat because I am a Christian (131 comments)

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  •  I think you're wrong, and I think I see why. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BFSkinner, thethinveil

    I've never seen anything to back up the notion that "Jews are generally more secular than Christians."

    However, I can easily believe that most Jews identify themselves as, or are seen as Jews, regardless of their worship practices.

    And Christians who identify or are seen as "Christians"  are a particular, more fervent subset of Christians.

    I'm a lapsed Catholic, prolly agnostic if you press me. Am I a Christian?  Arguably a toss-up.

    If I were Jewish, I suspect, there would be no question in my mind.

    •  Here's some evidence (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elwood Dowd, thethinveil

      Jews are less than half as likely as christians to be certain in the existence of God:
      http://channels.isp.netscape.com/...

      •  That's evidence of my point. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BFSkinner

        "who describe themselves as Christian or Jewish"

        •  How is such a god gap not evidence of Jews (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          thethinveil

          being more secular? If you don't think it is, what would you consider a reasonable metric? Perhaps there are statistics on it.

          •  To be more clear: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BFSkinner

            If you ask me, the lapsed Catholic, am I a Christian or  unaffiliated? I would say "Unaffiliated." That tends to drain the "Christian" pool of the less devout.

            If I were Jewish, maybe with grandparents dead in the Holocaust, I would never say Unaffiliated. That poll is not drained of skeptics in that same manner.

            How to get "good numbers"? I don't know; maybe include 80% of those not attending weekly services in the "Christian" number, since their households were probably attendees one or two generations back.

            •  I don't know if that's true, but it very well (0+ / 0-)

              could be. However, the skeptic poll is not large enough that the difference could be so wide without those of Jewish backgrounds being much more inclined to be skeptical.

              •  Sorry for the typo; I meant skeptic pool (0+ / 0-)
              •  The skeptic pool is HUGE. (0+ / 0-)

                My local church had eight packed Sunday Masses when I was a kid. It's down to three sparse Masses now, though the town is bigger. The weekly worshippers, here anyway, are shrinking.

                •  I'm talking about using the statistics (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Elwood Dowd

                  Take the skeptics, those who aren't certain there's a god, at 42%. Only 15% or so of the populous identify as having no religion.
                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
                  Lets assume that all 15% are skeptics for the sake of argument, even though some of them are certain there is a god. Add those 15% to the approximately 76% who say they are christians and calculate a new skeptic ratio of the pack. It comes out to around 55% of the christians and non believers believing there absolutely is a god, still far above the Jewish number. Clearly Jews are more secular. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

                  •  I'm entirely confused by this (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Michael91

                    and I'm losing interest, sorry.

                    "Secular" does not mean "atheist." Your numbers may all add up consistently to support what you mean - but I don't understand what you mean.

                    •  By skeptic I mean those who don't believe (0+ / 0-)

                      there is absolutely a god. This is 70% in the Jewish community and less than 30% in the Christian community according to the survey I presented earlier. I took the 15% or so who say they have no religion, made them Christian skeptics, and added them to the Christian community. This reduced the believers to around 55%, still far more than the Jewish 30%. Therefore your hypothesis that those who don't identify as religious are more likely to be Christian than the population as a whole still does not come close to making up the secular gap. Does this explanation help?

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