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View Diary: To solve the climate change problem, end the class divide (50 comments)

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  •  Price signals will not solve the problem. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    In her own Voice, thethinveil

    See chapter 6 of Meadows, Meadows and Randers' Beyond The Limits.  By the time the price signals give the "economic community" (i.e. the financial interests bankrolling energy) an incentive to quit using oil, the problem of abrupt climate change will already have become too big.

    "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Cassiodorus on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 09:23:26 AM PST

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    •  The "economic community" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jfromga

      only cares about making money.  So when a technology arises that can save such a massive amount, they will flock to it.

      GM, Ford, Chrysler, Benz, Nissan, Renault, VW, Toyota, will all have pure electronic or plug-in hybrids for sale within 18 months.

      They are proving that chapter's concept wrong.

      •  No, they aren't. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        In her own Voice

        The hybrids will merely be a supplement.    The corporations know that marketing a "green" line of product is good business in an era of concern about "being green."

        "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Cassiodorus on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 10:14:21 AM PST

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        •  I didn't say hybrids (0+ / 0-)

          I said pure electrics, or plug-ins.

          And the Chinese are just around the corner, where they too will build them by the millions.  You've got this serious misunderstanding of capitalism; it isn't evil, it is if anything amoral.  If there is money to be made by selling a better product, they will do it in a heartbeat.  If electrics are the way of the future, nobody will stop them.

          •  No, I don't (0+ / 0-)

            have a serious misunderstanding of capitalism -- where you pull "evil" out of any of my statements about it is beyond me.

            "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

            by Cassiodorus on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 12:11:47 PM PST

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            •  Conspiracies (0+ / 0-)

              Yes, they own the world, we are their puppets...

              That is why, you fail.

              Most of the newly minted billionaires on the earth are from BRIC countries.  These countries are new arrivals to industry and capital, indeed China is still a communist nation.  The idea that you can have a classless society is ludicrous- it hasn't happened in centuries because there will always be people that are more motivated, more willing to get into the scrap and mix it up, more willing to step on someone neck and throttle them.

              And this will always be that way.  The very fact that so much of the wealth in recent years has not gone to the "leisure class", the former industrial families of the US and EU and has gone south and east proves your entire diary pointless.

              •  If members of a social class act together (0+ / 0-)

                to protect their common class interest, it must be a "conspiracy."  Uh-huh.

                The idea that you can have a classless society is ludicrous- it hasn't happened in centuries because there will always be people that are more motivated, more willing to get into the scrap and mix it up, more willing to step on someone neck and throttle them.

                And here you show that you don't understand what classes are made of.  There is no real competition between the owning class and the working class: one class makes its money through investments and Ponzi schemes, the other through wage labor at "whatever the market will bear."  Classes are about an ongoing social division between the rich few and the struggling many, a product of the bankrolling of privilege through the exercise of class interest; the outcomes of competition have very little to do with the whole process.

                The existing framework of the means of production as private property, and of money as the arcane preserve of the banks, isn't eternal, thus social classes aren't eternal either.  But, hey, the First Amendment guarantees your right to a religion.

                "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

                by Cassiodorus on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 04:03:56 PM PST

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