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View Diary: Climate Change Reality : 1.5 or 2 degrees Celsius? Life or death for Tuvalu? (87 comments)

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  •  Whaddya mean, We? (11+ / 0-)

    surveys over the world show that working people are strongly in favor of taking necessary action. However, the will of the people is irrelevant. Nations are guided by the will of the privileged, nowhere more so than in the United States of America.

    The wealthy will act in self-interest and profiteers will do everything in their power to prevent any meaningful conservation program. There are a few pleasant exceptions, of course, but basically there are no countries that truly submit to the will of the people.

    When things get bad enough, revolutions will take place. Until then, I don't hold out much hope that the profiteers will do anything to preserve our planet.

    I think Al Gore's strategy is best. We have to convince the profiteers that they can make even more money by joining the conservation effort. Whether that is actually true is not particularly relevant. These are mind games we must win.

    Is it not written "There's a lot goes on we don't get told."? (Lu Tze)

    by MakeChessNotWar on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 11:25:02 AM PST

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    •  A survey in the Baltimore Sun this week (7+ / 0-)

      said that 83% of the polled public (unscientific) thought that scientists had exaggerated the effects of global warming.

      We need to work hard on US public opinion or we are lost as a civilization.

      "Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly." - Voltaire

      by captainlaser on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 11:35:20 AM PST

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      •   1000 paul reveres in reverse (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        reflectionsv37, koNko

        it starts with 1000 RW radio stations because they are uncontested.

        they blast the denial all day long, intimidating as well as enabling politicians and media with their easily mobilized misinformed screaming hoards of dittoheads. that is industry's main constituency, made to order, as limbaugh and hannity and others blast the country with coordinated uncontested repetition.

        the key is that it is uncontested- the monopoly excludes competition and call screeners ensure they will not be called on their lies and distortions.

        those stations are licensed to operate in the public interest and they are instead operating as paul reveres in reverse.

        the 400 people i marched to the state capitol with didn't get any media attention for the recent 350 protests. if 20 of us had gone to the local limbaugh megastation instead i suspect we would have had media attention.

        and their local sponsors need to be asked WTF.

        US social and political reality is largely determined by 1000 radio stations blasting coordinated UNCONTESTED repetition all day long.

        by certainot on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 11:52:04 AM PST

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      •  Irritating media (0+ / 0-)

        that asks questions of science using opinion poll language. Better, "Are you convinced by the science studies you have read of climate change? How much climate science to you read in one month?"

        No public option, no re-election. It's not complicated.

        by mrobinson on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 12:00:38 PM PST

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        •  Not to mention that every poll this week has (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko, cumberland sibyl

          ended up reactionary.

          They had a poll:

          Do you support the University of Maryland committing to buy 23% of its energy from green sources?

          80% of the people said "No".   WTF.

          I am pretty sure that they are being regularly freeped.

          "Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly." - Voltaire

          by captainlaser on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 12:27:03 PM PST

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      •  what we must do (0+ / 0-)

        part of the problem is that people can get away with being deniers with no consequences. We must treat all deniers, both in public and in private. We must shun them and isolate them so that it is clear that if they do not accept the risks of climate change that none of their opinions are of any interest. We need to get nasty about this.

        Is it not written "There's a lot goes on we don't get told."? (Lu Tze)

        by MakeChessNotWar on Mon Dec 14, 2009 at 12:57:46 PM PST

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    •  Al Gore is right, but it doesn't matter... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayDean, In her own Voice, freesia

      because profiteers don't want to wait. They want profits NOW.

      Let's say that the solar industry will be extremely profitable in 20 years. If I were Rex W. Tillerson (Shell's CEO, a 57 years-old engineer), I would not want to wait 20 years for big money, because I won't be CEO by that time.

      That's also the line of thought of "Cap & Trade" opponents. They don't want an increase of "taxes" and they will go lengths to convince themselves that AGW is not fact, so that they don't need to have their taxes raised.

    •  Your assertion is totally false. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko, CuriousBoston

      Most people do not want to sacrifice for the future in any form (studying hard, dieting, exercising, saving, investing, paying taxes for infrastructure).

      That is the problem.

      The sins of 2000 gave us the penance of 2001-2009. Don't repeat them.

      by Paul Goodman on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 12:00:22 PM PST

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      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        It is the weak spot of both Modern Capitalism and Socialism.

        But soon when islands and coastlines are disappearing it won't be about the future anymore.

        Is it not written "There's a lot goes on we don't get told."? (Lu Tze)

        by MakeChessNotWar on Sun Dec 13, 2009 at 01:15:52 PM PST

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        •  It already isn't (0+ / 0-)

          How much the short term consequences are in one's face depends greatly where on lives, and those facing the most severe and direct effects tend to be poor and voiceless, but then, that is the subject of this diary, isn't it?

          For example, poor Bangladesh, with meagar percapita CO2 emissions of 0.3T and an economy to match in inundated by rising sea levels, loss of airable land inland due to salinization and ever more severe monsoons and flooding near costal regions that further errode farmlands while linland areas recive declining rainfall.

          And then the world dumps it's unwanted ships on them so they can pick them apart by hand to salvage the scrap metal for a living now that the farms are gone.


          People need to understand this, how we treat our fellow man and the earth.

          Ask me about my daughter's future - Ko

          by koNko on Mon Dec 14, 2009 at 12:50:54 AM PST

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          •  people understand, they just don't care (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I can't agree with the assumption that when people know the facts they will behave properly. I don't believe that people are inherently good. Self-interest is hardwired into our biology.

            Is it not written "There's a lot goes on we don't get told."? (Lu Tze)

            by MakeChessNotWar on Mon Dec 14, 2009 at 12:55:51 PM PST

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    •  That does not seem to be the case (0+ / 0-)

      It depends, somewhat on country/region (some people face more direct consequences) but in the USA public sentiment is actually on a downward trend, probably due, in part, to short-term economic pressures that swing the public mood.

      It is therefore importiant to educate and inform, including our means and alternatived to arrest the trend and mitigate effects.

      But I'd certianly agree many corporations have short-term economic incentives to obstruct and lots of financial resources to influance governments, themselves often willing enablers.

      Ask me about my daughter's future - Ko

      by koNko on Mon Dec 14, 2009 at 12:37:32 AM PST

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