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View Diary: If this bill is so good for insurers and so bad for Dems ... (204 comments)

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  •  Having Republicans in office kills more people (13+ / 0-)

    than passing even a Lieberman-castrated bill.

    That's especially true now that they've moved even further to the right.  These people cannot be trusted with the largest arsenal on the planet.

    But, as I've argued before, gaining the political advantage happens to be the best path to gaining the policy advantage.  If, say, we put the insurer's antitrust option up to a straight vote, we might win because Republicans wouldn't want the political heat.

    This is politics.  It has never been pure and never will be.  But you can work the levers, if you're smart enough, and save lives.

    •  There's your diary. (7+ / 0-)

      Right there. This is why Bernie Sanders is swallowing hard and trying to get an amendment or two passed.

      Tonight I'm going to party like it's 1929.

      by Bensdad on Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 10:34:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  bullshit, seneca. not when it comes to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink

      MANDATED healthcare.

      you aren't thinking like the poor.  understandable.

      i am.

      866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it!

      by cany on Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 10:41:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm low on the economic scale (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Seneca Doane, juturna, sjterrid

        and as it stands, I will not be able to afford this. Before I know for sure, I need to see how the subsidies will work and just how much they expand Medicaid. (which I can't qualify for at this point) If it passes I may (and that's a big may) have a seat at the table, if not, I'm right back where I started. I really liked the Medicare buy in but if we don't have the votes, what do we do?

        Bottom line for me, if this passes and I can't afford it, they fine me. From what I understand it's a civil suit not a criminal suit and you can't get blood from a turnip. shrugs

        I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

        by JupiterIslandGirl on Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 11:04:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The poor will be subsidized (4+ / 0-)

        If they aren't, we can introduce a bill every day to provide them with subsidies, and we can campaign on it.  This is not the last legislation there has to be on this issue.  The serious question is: can we more easily build the system we want to see with this bill or without it?  If I thought that reconciliation would work, I might well say "without".  But I refuse to bet the farm on reconciliation.

        You keep implying that I don't give a damn about the poor, etc.  I find that more irritating that I can say.  If no bill passes, the poor continue dying.  If a bill passes, then we can improve that bill by bringing up popular reforms.  That's how to help the poor -- not to fail gloriously in one's attempt to legislate.

        •  UGH. The subsidies will not cover the costs. (0+ / 0-)

          Say this a thousand times:  More money to add to the subsidy to pay for a plan which requires co-pays and deductibles leaves Cany with LESS money than Cany has to spend.

          IN OTHER WORDS, people like ME will be behind, not ahead, Seneca.  AND, because of my age and PEs, they are now able to up my costs for the PEs under the King Lieberbill.  

          Kiss my butt goodbye financially.  And no, I do NOT qualify for Medicaid.

          Please don't just repeat those words without understanding what they mean.

          866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it!

          by cany on Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 11:53:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then hold a straight up vote on (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Triscula, divineorder

            increasing the subsidies.  Dare the Republicans to oppose it.

            See?  We're in a better position once the bill passes.  We can improve the bill by (what conservatives will call) "pandering" to people like you.  They get to be the ones to say so.  So who gets screwed?  They do!

            •  It's not just about increasing the subsidies for (0+ / 0-)

              people like me, Seneca.  It is about someone other than me having to pick up the TAB or don't mandate it.  They can sign me into Medicare cheaper.

              Subsidies for the poor--unless paying the whole tab and removing co-pays and deductibles--won't help.  I cannot afford to go to the doctor now.  I won't be able to afford to go to the docter THEN, either.

              The reality of the poor is different that people think it is.

              866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it!

              by cany on Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 10:20:15 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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