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View Diary: If this bill is so good for insurers and so bad for Dems ... (204 comments)

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  •  I think it's because of their success in moving (0+ / 0-)

    the bill rightward. At some point I think they may very well set loose Collins and Snowe to vote for it. But they think they can get more concessions before it comes to that. In  short, their not done yet.

    •  I doubt it at this point (1+ / 0-)
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      That's why Howard Dean has done what he has, in my opinion.  This far and no farther.

      •  Howard Dean is great but he doesn't have a vote (0+ / 0-)

        Have you seen anyone in the WH or leadership draw a line and say no further? I haven't.

        •  The left side of the party is revolting against (1+ / 0-)
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          Obama.  I think they know when to stop.

          •  Then why don't they say that? (1+ / 0-)
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            Seneca Doane

            Look I'm actually more with the don't give up on the bill crowd, and I actually like your tactical plan (though I admit I don't fully understand all of it), but honestly I've seen no reason to believe that the WH and leadership won't cave further. This thing seems far from the endgame and I think Republicans think they can water it down more with their obstruction. I just watched Axelrod on Tweety and he was all about defending the bill and undressing Dean and the left. That's not a recipe for holding the line.

            •  If they have Lieberman's vote (0+ / 0-)

              on the watered-down bill (and I believe that they'll get Nelson's), then they get into conference.  They have a new "base camp."  They can relax and recoup.  Republicans will try to water it down further, but it's already in conference.  Their best chance to do so will have passed.

              I can't figure out if they're pissed at Dean because they're afraid that he won't let them get into base camp or if this whole brouhaha is actually collusive.  Dean is sending a message to Lieberman and Nelson that they have already got too much -- they've already lost.  I think that that had to happen to stop the cave-in.

              So now what happens?  Well, Dean is now more or less the leader of the Left.  Good, we have a spokesperson.  We also have a person who they can negotiate with, and who -- when he changes his mind and suggests that the bill is good enough (with various fixes like, perhaps, the ones I propose in my recipe) -- will bring a lot of public opinion with him.

              Seriously, if they didn't collude with Dean, they might as well have.  I'm glad that they're sniping at him -- it helps build his street cred -- but they should be thanking their lucky stars that he's out there, rather than an inchoate opposition.  He's the "enemy" they need right now.

              •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
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                Seneca Doane

                if they didn't collude with Dean, they might as well have

                So true. The funny thing is that I've kind of come to a peace with the rift in the left on this. After spending a few days thinking about it, it occurred to me that both sides are doing what needs to be done. We need each other and don't even know it.

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