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View Diary: Why we need to hold our nose and support the Senate HCR bill (UPDATE - Senate Invokes Cloture) (55 comments)

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  •  Reconciliation has real limits (0+ / 0-)

    There are rules about what can be done through the reconciliation process, which was created specifically to avoid filibusters for budget/revenue bills only.  
    So, the Dems couldn't pass the insurance reforms (such as banning pre-existing conditions, rescissions, mandating medical loss ratios, etc.) through reconciliation.  Nor could they have used it to pass the insurance exchange mechanism -- which is the heart of the bill.
    Basically, they could have made some incremental changes using reconciliation, but could not have passed a comprehensive reform bill that way.

    •  Then I guess they truly are powerless... (0+ / 0-)

      They can pass shit or nothing if they can't use reconcilation.

      I have no faith that they will improve it at all if they continue to enable Nelson, Landrieu, Bayh, Baucus, and Lieberman.

      Democrats have proven they can't fulfill their promises and can't pass anything not loaded with shit.  Which just shows me that if this is the best we can hope for...what is the point of even hoping?

      •  Have faith. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        You clearly are passionate about this, and you clearly know what you're talking about.

        Are you aware that Social Security and Medicare were both severely flawed when they were first enacted?  Their initial legislation looked like pathetic attempts at solving serious problems.

        Please, look at this in the same light.  This is a first step.  A deeply flawed, but not incurable, first step.

        Two days ago, I was where you are.  Bitter, alienated, ready to throw in the towel.

        But if we give up now, we can't make this bill better.  If we give up now, we can't pressure our party to do whatever it can to give us the best possible bill.  Not the best bill, the best possible bill.

        If it makes you feel any better, think back to a year ago and picture this: Vice-President Sarah Palin.

        Keep the faith.  Keep fighting.

        Moderates don't change the world. They sit and watch as the world changes around them.

        by StonyB on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 09:54:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm tired (0+ / 0-)

          of having to choose between shit and even more shit.

          I appreciate your responding to me throughout the thread and I am indeed very frustrated.  I seriously am very lacking in any faith in the Democratic Party at all at this point in time, which is why I don't believe they will ever try and improve the bill.

          Social Security and Medicare did start off flawed, but I don't see the same demographics getting excited enough to tolerate the Dems enough to allow them to reform their own attempts at health reform.  There is also much more financial influences from lobbyists and insurance and health industries on legislation today than there was back when Medicare and Social Security were established. Because the power structure is much more vast today than in the 30s and 60s I am very pessimistic about anything getting better down the road.

          And I know you mean well but the whole "At least he's not McCain thing" doesn't really make anyone feel better.  If anything it makes me feel worse because we no longer are judging Obama by his policies but rather the policies that could have been.  It's an easy argument but it shouldn't let him or Congress off the hook.

          •  But this isn't "shit" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It is not as good as it could have been if we had a few better Congressmembers.
            It is not perfect, by any means.
            But it's pretty good.  It accomplishes a lot -- as I've mentioned before.  Insuring 31 million Americans, 45,000 of whom die every year as a result of their lack of insurance, will be a very real and very important improvement to our society, and this bill does that.  It contains many very good reforms.
            Does it do everything we would have wanted?  No.  But it does an awful lot.

            As Ezra Klein, a very keen observer (and progressive former blogger now writing for the Washington Post) observed:

            Imagine telling a Democrat in the days after the 2004 election that the 2006 election would end Republican control of Congress, the 2008 election would return a Democrat to the White House, and by the 2010 election, Democrats would have passed a bill extending health-care coverage to 94 percent of Americans, securing trillions of dollars in subsidies for low-income Americans (the bill's $900 billion cost is calculated over 10 years, but the subsidies continue indefinitely into the future), and imposing a raft of new regulations on private insurers. It is, without doubt or competition, the single largest social policy advance since the Great Society.

            Not bad, huh?  [Emphasis added.]

            That's why the forces of reaction and conservatism and fear are sulking today.  
            Every GOP member of the Senate voted against this bill (twice, now).  Every GOP member of the House but one voted against the House version.
            The conservatives and the lobbyists and the entrenched interests and Mitch McConnell and John McCain and Tom Coburn and John Boehner and Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and Michael Savage don't want this bill.
            Russ Feingold and Dick Durbin and Sherrod Brown and Tom Harkin and Bernie Sanders and Robert Byrd and John Lewis and Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and Victoria Kennedy do.

            I know which side I'm on.

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