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View Diary: It's Saturday Night, and kossacks are fighting (108 comments)

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  •  Let Me See If I Can Explain This (23+ / 0-)

    I grew up in a Republican home. I am not a Republican. We have this phrase we use. Used it when I was ten and now when I am 40. "We can agree to disagree." We can debate an issue and not be rude. It isn't that hard. I'd think it would be easier with my fellow liberals here, but alas, not always the case.

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

    by webranding on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 05:56:19 PM PST

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    •  I have this hypothesis (11+ / 0-)

      that if you take any group of people of whatever political persuasion, they will tend to agree on about 80% of issues (not hot-button political issues) they could discuss and then fight like hell about the remaining 80%. Republicans and Democrats won't agree on, say, choice and personal privacy, but they'll tend to agree that safe neighborhoods are good, education is good, good roads and other infrastructure are good.

      The part of me that remains steadfastly naive and idealistic about legislatures being great deliberative bodies thinks that if people could realize their immense shared common ground they'd be more willing to engage in reasoned, honest debate.

      Clearly that does not represent reality, and I adjust my worldview accordingly. Sigh.

      We do a pretty good job here, which is why I keep coming back year after year.

      Someone is wrong on the Internet! To the Kosmobile!

      by socratic on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:07:10 PM PST

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      •  My Brother Married Into A Large Republican (8+ / 0-)

        family. On top of my own, well these holidays I'll be the only liberal in a house of 40 people. My brother said, a few years ago when he got married, that I shouldn't say what I thought. I'd be tempted, he knew, but please don't do it. Don't start a fight.

        I explained that wasn't how I rolled. Telling somebody they are stupid doesn't help me or the cause I might care about. I dealt with Obama is a Muslim. Bizarre stuff. I've not moved any of them to our side, but I do know this.

        They view us dirty hippie liberals as much more sane then they realized.

        "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

        by webranding on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:17:22 PM PST

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        •  A family friend (7+ / 0-)

          has stated clearly that she could never be friends with a liberal because liberals are obviously evil and so the issue wouldn't even come up.

          One of her best friends is my liberal sister. They never discuss politics (I guess the friend assumes my sister is a conservative).

          There are times I want to stick my finger in her face and be all "HA HA HA PREMISE DISPROVED SUCKA!" But that would be wrong, and I just sit back content in the knowledge that they agree on enough to be friends despite the vast gulf between them on a handful of issues, issues that are critically important, but still just a handful.

          Someone is wrong on the Internet! To the Kosmobile!

          by socratic on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:24:36 PM PST

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          •  There Is A Running Joke (6+ / 0-)

            at these events

            He is the liberal.

            I didn't address it correctly, but I said what I said cause I agree we are "cool" on about 80% of things. We agree on so many things. That stunned them. I don't know what they thought, but it was bizarre. I think they might have thought I wanted to kill their kids. It was hard for them to learn I'd give my life to save their child. I didn't want to take away their money and give it to somebody that doesn't work.

            I think at one time the phrase, "this doesn't compute" was used.

            "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

            by webranding on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:34:03 PM PST

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            •  There are some situations where you don't discuss (0+ / 0-)

              politics or religion. Wasn't that the wise old saying? The hardest part is knowing the when.It's like that with my dad and brother mostly. The little brother has to deal with people far to his right now that he is on the city council so he is more moderate as he ages. And the GOP lost him the last few years. He considers himself an independent now.

              I married into a family where Democratic politics were the topic du jour at the table. Service was the chosen path. CIA, State, Treasury, Hill staff. I learned to keep up and after few years fit right in. Thirty years and counting.

              I admire people in those mixed political marriages.

              Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices--François-Marie Arouet

              by CA Berkeley WV on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 09:20:18 PM PST

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      •  (er, fight like hell about the remaining 20%) (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, JanL, allep10

        math fail. sleep fail.

        Someone is wrong on the Internet! To the Kosmobile!

        by socratic on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:21:29 PM PST

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      •  A good hypothesis. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        socratic, JanL

        And regarding this:

        The part of me that remains steadfastly naive and idealistic about legislatures being great deliberative bodies thinks that if people could realize their immense shared common ground they'd be more willing to engage in reasoned, honest debate.

        ...keep the faith. I can't think of any progressive reforms that have been brought about by folks who were fundamentally cynical. There has to be an inner core of hope, a belief that people holding wildly divergent views can find common cause when the circumstances demand it.

        Otherwise, what's the point?

        "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?"

        by Cure7802 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 07:13:51 PM PST

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        •  In my ideal Utopia (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JanL, Cure7802

          people would identify position A and the opposed position B, then work together to implement position C to make the disagreement moot (e.g., taking on an issue that is one level removed from the disputed issue and where people can find common ground). It wouldn't work in every case, but defusing the dispute when both parties want to do something is a nice goal, I think.

          On the other hand, I'm prepared to make life hell for every obstructionist Republican and conservative Democrat in Congress by making sure their bills and amendments never see the light of day. So, I fail. :)

          Someone is wrong on the Internet! To the Kosmobile!

          by socratic on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 07:24:18 PM PST

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    •  let me offer parallel from Civil Rights movement: (7+ / 0-)

      we can disagree without being disagreeable

      that is something in which I strongly believe, and not just because of my own participation, however minor, in the Civil Rights movement.

      It is something I try very hard to inculcate in my students, who are the future of this democracy.

      Peace.

      do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

      by teacherken on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:07:45 PM PST

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    •  Heck, I'm not even 100% with (8+ / 0-)

      my husband, but after 33 years (this weekend!) we've learned to live with the differences.  

      People of good will - will work together for good.

      Sometimes it's better to individually address a problem rather than just criticize our politicians for failing to do so.

      by texasmom on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:40:35 PM PST

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      •  we celebrate 24 on 29th (6+ / 0-)

        but we have been together since Sept of 1974

        and we have strong disagreements, including on some political issues of importance.

        do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

        by teacherken on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 06:43:16 PM PST

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        •  I think mutual congratulations are (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          teacherken, 3goldens, JanL, allep10

          in order!  ;)

          It is very valuable to be able to argue my beliefs/theories with someone I trust wholly.  Trust does not come as easily to me as I would like.

          Sometimes it's better to individually address a problem rather than just criticize our politicians for failing to do so.

          by texasmom on Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 07:05:48 PM PST

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