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View Diary: Ever been through Tel Aviv's airport? (231 comments)

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  •  Unlikely (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril

    At least part of my ancestry has been traced back to 1340 common era.

    If my hand luggage had signs of gun powder or plastic explosives on it but they couldn't find a gun or bomb, would you be all cool with sitting next to me?

    If you were cleared to fly I would have no issue.  I might worry a little, I'm human, but I would assume that if you had been cleared then you were clean.
    You could get powder residue from having your bag beside you on a firing range.  Most explosives have chemical signatures to identify source and manufacturer.  What is the big deal?

    Take it away from the personal and try to understand.

    That is my point.

    Like the poster said, I don't know you from Adam, but if you set off a weapons detector and they can't find the weapon in a cursory frisk, I'm not going to be too happy about having your on my flight.  Would you be, if the situation were reversed?

    Oh, what a weasly cop out.  There is no such thing as a "weapons detector" only substance detectors.  I also already explained that I when I beep I expect it to be questioned and another test applied.  So your point is totally irrelevant to the argument.  That you use such a spurious and stupid argument is denegrating to everyone following this thread (if any).

    Please lift your game.

    Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

    by Demena on Mon Dec 28, 2009 at 11:15:23 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You have a great deal more respect for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sersan

      the TSA than I do, clearly.  Because, you know, they always spot explosives and such as.  If you had been on that flight to Detroit, you probably wouldn't have done anything about that guy with the fire because, you know, he had been cleared and all that.  I'm sure the guy from Nigeria could trace his ancestry really far back too, and you would have been all down with that, and just enjoyed the fire show, given that he had been cleared and all.  Seriously?

      Republicans want to take our country back; Democrats want to take it forward.

      by DrJeremy on Mon Dec 28, 2009 at 11:25:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lol (0+ / 0-)

        You are stretching and stretching. Give it up, you will break.  Do you enjoy appearing foolish?  Read your own post again.  Doesn't it seem silly?  Preview is your friend.

        Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

        by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 12:54:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  what does (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sersan, corvo, hikerbiker

          ancestry has been traced back to 1340 common era have to do w/anything?

          i'm following the thread, since you mentioned it earlier. i don't know why you're not accepting dr jeremy's rational, it sounds perfectly logical to me. i'm not sure it would be my decision but it doesn't sound any less rational than your opinion and it doesn't include all your indignation which is a red flag.

          Please lift your game.

          •  I suspect..... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Demena, hikerbiker

            ...it's evidence of not being an alien.  

          •  Zannie, (0+ / 0-)

            The 1340 was in reference the presumably jocular comment about me being an alien.  Since I didn't find it funny, just another cheap shot, I provided some information to suggest otherwise.

            And, no I am not indignant, I just won't accept being a second class citizen because I have a minor difference from the norm, particularly as it is one I share with others.  That doesn't seem irrational to me.  On the other hand being unwilling to share a plane with me because of a minor difference that provides complication enough for me is irrational.  So I don't see that I am the irrational one here.

            I've as much right to fly as anyone else.  Because I beep, I wind up with more scrutiny.  I have to live with that (and do so) but I fail to see why the fact that I get more screening should make me an undesirable.  In actuality it makes me a safer risk.

            Drjeremy's "decision" about me is not only irrational it is discriminatory.  If he is that paranoid he is the one that belongs on the ground, not me.

            And yet he persists with thinly veiled slights.  Not very pretty really.

            Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

            by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 01:29:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oh (0+ / 0-)

            and if you are going to enter a game in the middle of play  it is worth checking the score.

            Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

            by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 01:38:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  this is not a game (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sersan

              and i've been reading the entire exchange, i just hadn't been commenting earlier.dr jeremy said it was fine to keep people aside til you find out why they are beeping, then said she'd be fine w/a strip search but
              What I think is crazy is when someone sets off the metal detector, they do a cursory pat down, don't find anything, say, "ok, whatevs,"

              so big deal? maybe to some people a cursory pat down isn't sufficient. i was perfectly happy w/airline security prior to 9/11 so i am not advocating for stronger searches. but especially in the context of this diary (and i HAVE been thru tel aviv) going off on a poster for being uncomfortable having someone on an airplane who didn't pass the mustard on the machine being passed w/a cursory pat down could easily mean a weapon has entered the plane.

              that's one persons opinion. it doesn't mean they have the right to keep you off the plane, it means they have the right to have that opinion. i've been on a plane that was held up for 2 hrs til 4 arab men had to get off the plane ONLY because some passengers complained. that is bigotry, not passing a metal detctor is not bigotry. it is the system we have been programmed to respect, not based on race of profiling, but based on scientific standards.

              this is merely my opinion. we differ on opinion thats all. as long as the system is in place everyone should be treated equally wrt it. one would imagine if someone like yourself had a special condition the airlines would have that on record and treat you accordingly, if not..welll just passing people thru w/a cursory pat down rather defeats the purpose of the detector in the first place.

              ps, i've checked the score (recs) and if you're 'winning' it aint too obvious on the uprates. you do sound like your taking this personally tho, and i'm sorry if my opinion offends you, but its just my opinion.

              •  Your interpretation is different from mine. (0+ / 0-)

                He/she said that she/he would not want me sitting next to her because I beep.  It was an absolute not a conditional and now you try to make it a conditional.  That is why it is a game to both of you.

                I agree about the cursory pat downs and never contested that.  Again that is why you are making it a game because people are trying to "change" what they said.

                Again you still play the game by saying it is science.  If indeed you had read the thread you would have read what I said about false positives and false positives.

                What makes it a game is that both you and jeremy want to be right rather than correct.

                So, no it is not a matter of opinion.  You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.  The argument we are having now do not match the facts of the posts.

                And no, I'm not taking this personally.  I am only interested in the correctness of the argument.

                I haven't noticed that many uprates on either side and I believe (and that is an opinion is because I doubt many people are bothering to read this anymore.  If I wasn't involved in it I wouldn't be reading it either.

                And you are gaming again because I said I was content with strip search and x-rays but not a perfunctory pat down.

                You are making a game out of it because you are moving the goal posts.  I am still kicking the same goal.  And you are introducing the fact that I care about winning when I don't, I only care abut being correct and it is very clear (not opinion) that I am right here.  It is you and jeremy that want to be right.  That are counting "points".  I am only concerned with accuracy.  Which makes you "pointless"

                If you actually read the thread and understood it as you claim then what you are now saying is tantamount to lieing.

                I find the "methods or argument" (which they aren't they are debating tactic and foul ones at that) you and jeremy are using to show dubious ethics.  And that is why I persist.  Facts and reason are appropriate in an argument not misstatements, word twisting and desire for victory.

                My kids tell me I should use the handle "Atticus Finch".  If you reread your own dialog with me and/or Jeremys then maybe you would understand why.

                Try developing a sense of honour.

                Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 03:17:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  oh my (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sersan

                  gaming to lying to dubious ethics to sense of honor? it isn't often i encounter so many accusatory ad hominems in one post. you accuse me of ' introducing the fact that I care about winning' when you know very well that is completely unsupportable AND it was you who started using gaming terms and scorekeeping:

                  if you are going to enter a game in the middle of play  it is worth checking the score.

                  i am just fine with you taking this anywhere you want it to go and perfectly comfortable with you making all the allegations you wish to make. call me a murderer for all i care. we just disagree and i don't have that much interest in this topic, certainly not enough to slug it out w/such an accusatory person. how wonderful for you your children admire your arguing skills however this is not your living room,  you are not the judge and jury here nor do you make the rules

                  ;) ciao

                  •  I think you just proved that you just proved (0+ / 0-)

                    I did not use ad hominem arguments.  I did deduce things about you from your postings.   Your post;

                    i'm following the thread, since you mentioned it earlier. i don't know why you're not accepting dr jeremy's rational, it sounds perfectly logical to me. i'm not sure it would be my decision but it doesn't sound any less rational than your opinion and it doesn't include all your indignation which is a red flag.

                    Please lift your game.

                    That was your post to which I replied;

                    if you are going to enter a game in the middle of play  it is worth checking the score.

                    And then you say;

                    it was you who started using gaming terms and scorekeeping:

                    A counter-factual statement.  Point proven.  By evidence , not opinion.

                    It wasn't argument skills that made Atticus Finch who he was.  It was his integrity, his principle.

                    There is nothing else that needs saying.  Bye!

                    Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                    by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 04:01:55 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  close, no cigar (0+ / 0-)

                      you can dish it out, but you can't take it

                      Oh, what a weasly cop out.  There is no such thing as a "weapons detector" only substance detectors.  I also already explained that I when I beep I expect it to be questioned and another test applied.  So your point is totally irrelevant to the argument.  That you use such a spurious and stupid argument is denegrating to everyone following this thread (if any).

                      Please lift your game.

                      if you want demo's of your ad hominems also  i can easily supply them.

                    •  ps (0+ / 0-)

                      your indignation is a red flag.

                      •  It might be if I have any. (0+ / 0-)

                        You mistake contempt for dishonest argument as indignation.
                        I've given you a chance to "man up" and be honest.  You declined.  EOS.

                        Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                        by Demena on Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 04:31:26 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  excuse me (0+ / 0-)

                          it was you who started using gaming terms and scorekeeping:

                          A counter-factual statement.  Point proven.  By evidence , not opinion.

                          i do believe that was a massive fail on your part as my link demonstrated and now you are lecturing me about 'manning up'.. here's the problem as i see it. you want to deal with facts although you mentioned earlier the 'squeamishness' of the issue which indicates you understand this is not all based on 'fact' for some of us it is based on opinion, emotion and fear. you use strawmen to make your points, like claiming someone wants you on a no fly list or claiming they want you banned. (your words, not hers) you accuse someone of making a weasley cop out when they say this

                          Like the poster said, I don't know you from Adam, but if you set off a weapons detector and they can't find the weapon in a cursory frisk, I'm not going to be too happy about having your on my flight.  Would you be, if the situation were reversed?

                          you keep explaining and explaining but you fail to see this isn't about who's right and wrong (although you claim you are right) it is about emotions and peoples opinions. you are not even hearing our opinions, you just want us to deal w/your 'facts' which cannot fully be explained because they are somewhat mysterious in nature. i believe drjeremy feels this way, and i don't think anything is wrong w/that. i didn't hear this person say they wanted you banned or on a no fly list although i certainly understand your argument sounds better if that is what you construe. there is hardly a post here where you have not used ad hominems,  i absolutely do know what they are  now i showed you once how your declaration of 'Point proven' fell completely flat, and i can certainy do that again, but you should try just dealing with what the person says as if it was their truth. and when speaking of fears and opinions about peoples comfort zones you will just have to accept we all have different ones.

                          if it makes you feel comfortable to  assert i am dishonest. gaming and a whole slew of other ad hominem crap so be it.

                          I am only interested in the correctness of the argument.

                          sans our opinions which to you just are not 'correct'. because it is bigoted . becasue you are a scientist and you know better and thats just the way it is. you  engage wound up and you argue your way thru degrading your opponent.

                          you talk about manning up and you do not have the decency to admit your 'point proven' wasn't proven in the least.
                          i'll deal w/some of these ad hominems after i get some sleep. you can read them or not , but i'm posting them either way.

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