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View Diary: WA Gov -- s/p recount, Vance stirs (122 comments)

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  •  50:50 (2.66)
    People were sick of the Dems dragging it out and now they're further sickened by the Repubs dragging it out.  IMHO, Washington state is going to be just as divided over this as the US has been over Bush/Gore & Bush/Kerry.  

    It should never have come to this.  While Gregoire is certainly the preferable choice, she ran a lousy campaign that allowed Rossi to make the race so close.  She is going to have to do some excellent work as governor and do some healing with the Repubs in order to have a shot at a second term, methinks.  How does one promote healing with Repubs without compromising Democratic/liberal principles?  What a sticky whicket!

    As a newly elected committeewoman at the Washington state party level, I'm planning on working extremely hard to get the State Dems to recognize the importance of the rural counties.  We need more Democrats in eastern WA to ensure this doesn't happen again.

    •  I disagree (none)
      She should have no difficulty in governing because she has a Democratic majority in the legislature.

      It's no different than what Bush did when people said he'd have to govern as if he won no mandate.  He didn't give a rats ass about the size of his mandate.

      Gregoire didn't have a difficult time winning because she failed to win Republican votes, she had a difficult time because a number of Democrats crossed over to vote for Rossi. Both Kerry and Patty Murray received more votes than she did.

      It is far easier to work on getting Democrats to support her than in trying to convince rural Republicans.

      •  The main priority in 2006 (none)
        should be keeping your legislature Democratic. I'd say this is even more important than Cantwell. The Republicans will try to beat the Democrats to death with Gregoire, and Democrats in the state can't let that happen.
        •  2 things (4.00)
          This is the number one thing to recognize:

          Republicans are going to try to beat you to death no matter what you do.  The Democrats could adopt 100% of the positions of the Republican platform and the Republicans would still attack.

          Two years is a long time in politics to bring up old charges.  It went nowhere for the Democrats in Florida, they couldn't even win the Secretary of State's office.  If the Republicans bring it up, don't get frightened, don't say "woe is us", go on the f-ing attack.  A state legislator should just say "I'm discussing health care, transportation, education, job creation; issues that matter to you, and my clown of an opponent is wasting your and my time bringing up baseless two year old charges".

      •  And I disagree with you (4.00)
        First, while it may be easy to govern when the Dems control the legislature, that still means that she will need to make good decisions.  Right now this state is in a crisis.  Most of the burden of the fiscal crisis is being borne by the cities and counties.  I don't have the answers to the problems but I hope Gregoire and the Dems do.  

        Second, yes, a lot of Dems crossed over and voted for Rossi.  You wanna know why?  One big reason is that rural Dems are totally ignored by the State Party and most of the state-wide campaigns.  And I believe this exodus of rural Dems to the Republican party will continue unless something is done about it.

        Third, I have no idea why you associate rural votes with Republican votes.  Have you looked at the Blue-Red map of Washington state?  Most of western Washington is blue.  A LOT of that area is rural.  Believe me, the I-5 corridor can't do it alone.  If the Dems lose those rural blue areas....and I really think they will if they don't start thinking a bit more about how they treat us out here...then this state will turn into a solid red state.  No question about it.

        Fourth, there are a lot of Dems in Eastern WA as well.  Should they just be ignored?  Yes, we should strengthen our base but we should also show the misguided Repubs why voting Dem is in their best interests.  A lot of the rural poor in Eastern WA actually vote against their best interests by voting Repub.

        If you live in one of the urban areas, you have no clue what I'm talking about and how crucial this matter is.  

        I live in a rural Dem county.  Believe me, we're losing it.   My county is a strong Dem county.  Ever single county-level elected official is a Democrat.  I believe the last county-level Republican served in about 1965.  And they have been few and far between since the 1930s.  Our county is divided between 3 Legislative Districts.    All three of our state senators are Dems.  5 of our 6 state representatives are Dems.  Yet my county is virtually ignored by the State Dem party, by our Congressional District Chair, and by the state-wide campaigns.  

        Rossi came down here 5 times.  Each time he came he made speeches and had fairly long Q&A sessions.  Gregoire came down here twice.  Once to speak out our local Dem party meeting.  Nice but not an event that draws huge bi-partisan crowds like Rossi got.  And once to go fishing.  She was shamed into appearing in a parade that was happening the day she came down but it wasn't a part of her plan.  That's it.  No other attention.  Nada.  Rossi got almost as many votes as she did from my county.  Gee, I wonder why.

        •  Well, that's a very fair point (none)
          She needs to work on getting Democrats who voted for Rossi, whether they live in rural or urban areas to support her.
          •  Thanks and sorry.... (3.00)
            ...for ranting.

            It is discouraging to see increasing numbers of Dems in this area turning their support to the Repubs.  The State Repub Party puts a lot of support toward the local Repubs.  Even though they have not even fielded a Republican candidate to challenge any Dems down here!  What's up with that?  Well, they see the potential for long-term gain and their taking the opportunity that our State Dem Party is neglecting.  It's really too bad.

            I have a passion about this issue and, believe me, Paul Berendt (or whoever replaces him) is going to rue the day I got on the state committee because I'm going to hammer this as hard as I can.

            •  Good for you! (none)
              It's important to compete for every vote and to be attentive to the concerns of the people in every part of the state.

              Like I said in another thread, it's amazing to me how so many see the Democrats as the 'elitists' when the country clubs are full of rich Republicans.

            •  Just get us a new state party chair... (none)
              I take it you're in the 19th?

              Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

              by oldpro on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 12:16:54 AM PST

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              •  No, but next door (none)
                I'm in the 24th.  My county is split between the 19th, 24th, and 35th.
                •  Me too. The GH vote for Buck (none)
                  was the most disappointing...any insights into why VanDeWege didn't do better down your way?

                  Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

                  by oldpro on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 08:56:28 AM PST

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                  •  Hey Neighbor! (none)
                    It's fun to meet people who live close to home.

                    Kevin really didn't do all that bad down here in GH.  Granted he didn't beat Buck but it was closely than I thought it was gonna be.  Unfortunately, I think the main reason why he failed was lack of name recognition.  

                    He got off to a rocky-start in Grays Harbor.  I won't go into detail but a few simple mistakes at the beginning of his campaign really turned a few key people off.  And the mistakes were from simple naivete that is not surprising from someone who had never ran for office before.  He did a stand-up job in trying to rectify those mistakes but some of the damage lingered.

                    I worked hard for Kevin down here and I would do it again in a heartbeat.  I'm encouraging him to run again next time.  He has proven himself as a viable candidate.  He just needs to keep his name out there.

                    I'm proud to say that John Pollock, current chair of the 24th LD, contacted me to run for vice-chair of the 24th.  Kevin is going to run for chair.  (John Pollock is stepping down gladly to give Kevin this opportunity.)  Kevin and I are excited that we might potentially be working together...if we both get voted in.  I intend to work closely with him and find ways to ensure that he maintains a presence in Grays Harbor so that he's no longer an unknown commodity down here.

                    Buck is our only legislator from the dark side.  It would be nice to have a clean-slate of Dems representing us.

                    •  Thanks for the assessment (none)
                      of Kevin's race.  I worked hard to fundraise for him here in Jefferson and we did very well, $$$ and votes.

                      Glad to hear he may take over for John Pollock and that you'll be working with him.  Good!  That will definitely be good for the 24th and for Clallam Dems as well.  We hee in Jeffco are meeting with Kevin in January when Dave Woodruff gets back from Mexico and we're encouragin him to run again as well.  Let's all learn from those mistakes.  He's young and green but a good kid and can mend fences with time.

                      See you in the 24th and on Kos!

                      Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

                      by oldpro on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 10:36:31 PM PST

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        •  funkycamper (none)
          From your description, I'm presuming that you live in Grays Harbor County.  I appreciate and laud what you and your neighbors have been able to do to maintain the Dem character of your county.  Jefferson to your north and Pacific south of you also appear to have bucked the alleged [rural=GOP] trend.

          We Washington urbanites, as well as the state party and the national party, must pay attention to Grays Harbor and the few places like it.  How'd you do it?  Are there particular issues that work well?  Is it a mode of approaching the voters?  Do your local governments have innovative programs or services that help to maintain support and strength as Democrats?

          You're right that we can't hitch ourselves solely to urban Puget Sound counties.  We're one state, with many issues and problems -- and hopefully, solutions -- in common.  Sure, there are urban-specific and rural-specific issues, but even there it will be necessary to develop wide enough political support to pass legislation.

          One important question -- is there sufficient political will in Gray Harbor County to allow political discourse on such issues as the state's tax structure?  Is there support for developing fairer revenue streams?

          It's clear to me that you feel that Berendt has failed to motivate and develop the party beyond whatever narrow structures he knows.  I'm not sure he's been particularly good at building the party in Seattle either, and he has clearly let us all down when it comes to building a public face in person and on the web.  Which, if any, of the other candidates do you think could make positive changes?

          You're only young once, but you can be immature forever -- Larry Andersen

          by N in Seattle on Mon Dec 27, 2004 at 10:30:54 PM PST

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          •  Yes, I'm in Grays Harbor (none)
            Good questions!

            How'd we do it?  In Grays Harbor, it's simply built on history.  But as the "old guard" yellow-dog Dems of the past die out, the Republicans are taking hold.  A scary development is that the Grays Harbor Republicans have an active and motivated Young Republican Club.  The local Dems have NO Young Democrat Club.  Yikes!  We just can't get young people interested enough in Dem positions.    

            Issues the Republicans are using to make in-roads here are:

            • environmental restrictions
            • gun ownership
            • restrictions on hunting and fishing
            • wedge social issues like gay marriage and abortion

            These issues are complex.  Believe me, it's not as simple as the stereotypical portrayel of loggers as guys who love to "kill" trees.  Believe me, that is NOT the case.  In essence, there are many here who share the perception that Seattle-area environmentalists have destroyed their own area yet want to impose excessively harsh restrictions on our areas in order to mitigate their own destruction.  

            It would take me a book to explain what I'm talking about.  Let me give you just one example.

            Our local beach communities only have one industry allowed due to environmental protections.  That industry is tourism.  As you may be aware, most tourism jobs are low-paid and many are only full-time during the summer months and during clam-digging.  A big attraction to our area beaches is the ability to drive on them.  Even in the winter, there are hundreds of cars on the beach.  In the summer, it easily reaches into the thousands.

            Last year, the State Dem Party was considering endorsing a ban on all beach driving in Washington state.  This would devestate the economies of these beach communities.  If a tourist can't even get out to the beach, why would they come here?  There are virtually no parking lots near the beach to park at.  Some of us local Dems had to quickly rally to educate the State Dem Committee on how devestating this decision would be and lobby them to not support this issue.  

            Then Rep. Al O'Brien, Dem (I think from Mercer Island?), introduced a bill to eliminate beach driving.  Again, a contingent of Dems from Grays Harbor rallied against this.  Our strong Coastal Caucus also fought this issue.  It failed in commitee.

            But the point is this:  At no point in time was one single Democrat in Grays Harbor or Pacific counties contacted to find what we thought about this issue.  No one asked us if it would negaticvely effect our already devestated economies.  No one asked us if there were certain areas that a ban on beach-driving might be appropriate vs. other areas where it would not.  No one asked us if there were ways to mitigate the issue to make it more palatable and to have less devestating impacts.  

            This is the perfect example of how urban Dems tend to get an idea and act on it without consulting those who it would effect.  We are left out of the process.  It is as if we are considered nothing but a bunch of uneducated red-necks who don't have a clue.

            <<One important question -- is there sufficient political will in Gray Harbor County to allow political discourse on such issues as the state's tax structure?  Is there support for developing fairer revenue streams?>>

            I believe so.  Ron Sims actually had stronger support from the core Dems in this area than Gregoire did, mostly due to his courage in bringing up the income-tax issue.

            I'm not thrilled with Berendt.  The only opponent of his who I have heard from yet is Greg ??? (a Latino name like Gonzales or Rodrigues).  I really like what he had to say.  And he sure had a "fire in the belly" that I don't see from Berendt.  At the 24th legislative district re-org on January 8th, all the candidates will be speaking.  I will need to reserve my judgement on this until I hear all of them.

            I do agree with you that our State Dem website is atrocious.  We need a good blog!!!

            •  one of the real (none)
              downsides to Sid Snyder's retirement, eh?

              I'm in the 19th (in Cowlitz).  Well, rather, I'm not, because I'm in Germany, but that's where I vote.

              The issues in Cowlitz are a little different than out on the coast, but there are a lot of similarities, and as it kind of represents the intersection of rural WA with the I-5 corridor, it ends up being pretty emblematic of how D's are doing statewide.  Thus, you have Gregoire in a virtual tie in a county that Murray carried handily (Gregoire also runs behind Kerry, but if I remember correctly, Gore's margin was rather better).

              The imperative issue for any candidate to handle in this area is the massive unemployment caused by the downfall of the resource extraction economy.  Voters here do tend to get caught up in anti-environmentalism (I very much disagree that environmental regulation is to blame, but I can understand their reasoning), but there's another thread D's need to hammer to defuse this potential R issue: anti-corporatism.

              Let me explain part of the situation in Cowlitz County.  During the power crisis, the BPA offered to pay aluminum smelters to shut down temporarily (it was locked into providing power to them, and wanted the capacity back).  Theoretically, this money was supposed to cover salaries for all of the workers until the plant re-opened.  Well, the owner of the plant here (I can't remember its name at the time, since it's been sold so many times in recent years: it was Reynold's, then Alcoa, then Longview Aluminum, then something else...) decided to lay off all the workers, close the plant permanently, pocket the money, and leave town.  Oh, and he was being audited by his brother's firm.

              Our U.S. Rep (Brian Baird) has done a great job working with his constituents on this issue.  He's met repeatedly with the unemployed workers (mostly but not entirely union), listened at length to their concern, and then explained what he's been doing in D.C. to try to get an investigation going, what he's been doing to try to get help for unemployment/training/etc, and what he's working on to bring new jobs to the area.  I know that constituent relations from Congress are different than on the State level, but Gregoire could still learn a thing or two about retail politics from Baird.

              The thing is, this should have been a bread-and-butter issue for Gregoire.  Go down to the closed-down mill sites, say "As AG, I worked hard to protect the citizens of WA from corporate greed. I accomplished A, B, C...  As Gov, I will continue to fight for workers all over the state, and will make my job-creation plan, blah, blah, blah, my top priority".  As many others in this thread have described, she didn't even come and speak to the people.

              She has a second chance, now.  Four years to get out and get to know the people of Washington.  I used to work in Gov. Kulongoski's office in Oregon, and he said from the moment that he entered office, that getting outside of the Valley, and into every part of the State as often as possible was one of his top priorities.  Gregoire needs to set a goal of visiting every County in the State at least once every 3 months.    Whether she serves a second term has a lot to do with whether she has answers for the problems facing every part of the state, but it also has to do with whether she goes and asks questions like "What do you need your state government to do for you?"  And asks them not just in places like Grays Harbor and Cowlitz, but in places like Adams and Benton, Chelan and Okanogan.  I don't know if Gregoire has the skills to make people in all these places consider her "their" governor, too, and not just King's.  But if not, she'd better learn them soon.

              Sorry for the long, rambling post, but hopefully my experiences as a semi-rural Washingtonian are at least slightly enlightening.

              •  thanks! (none)
                I must admit that my urban/Seattle blinders made me wonder how it was that -- considering that she led Rossi in only 8 counties -- among "her" counties were such non-urban/non-trendy ones as Jefferson, Grays Harbor, Pacific, and Cowlitz.  (San Juan may not be urban, but it is trendy.)  To someone who arrived in WA less than four years ago, that observation puzzled me.

                Your post, and those of funkycamper, have been invaluable in widening my perspective.  Hopefully, I'm not alone.

                You're only young once, but you can be immature forever -- Larry Andersen

                by N in Seattle on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 08:22:05 AM PST

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              •  Yay, Brian Baird (none)
                I've really been impressed with him.  Glad to hear he's doing a stand-up job for your area.  

                I have the utmost respect for Sid Snyder.  But I also have a lot of respect for Mark Doumit, his replacement as senator.  I think Mark is doing an excellent job.  Of course, he is still building up the gravitas Sid had but I think he's getting there.  Brian Blake, Mark's replacement as state rep from the 19th, is also a real go-getter.  I've been impressed with the way he's thrown himself head-first into his position.  That both Mark and Brian were unopposed in this last election tells me that many out there agree with me.

                But with Brian Hatfield's resignation, we have a new junior representative from the 19th....and he's from your area...Dean, or is it Dave?, Takko.  He's got a lot of experience at the county level so I hope he's able to hit the ground running and maintain the momentum.  It will be interesting to watch.

                Thanks for the info on Cowlitz County.  I am a bit familiar with the alumininum situation and the unemployment but your post clarified a few things.  I agree that unemployment in these rural areas is a key factor.  And I would agree with you that environmentalism isn't the only reason for it.  And, in fact, most of the environmental restrictions are good things.  Even those who have lost their jobs usually think that.  However, that doesn't help put food on the table.  

                I totally agree with your assessments on Gregoire re these issues.  The one and only time she spoke in Grays Harbor, her only discussion about jobs was concerning the Boeing corporate welfare boondoggle.  Nada, zip about our local unemployment and under-employment issues.  This should have been a no-brainer.

                And, yes, not only Gregoire but more state-level politicos need to get into other areas of the state (both red and blue, both rural and the smaller cities) and find out what issues they're concerned about and how they would see them resolved.  Most of us have some pretty good ideas if only someone bothered to listen to us.

                I really appreciate you sharing your insight.

        •  Rural vs Urban (none)
          Have you looked at the Blue-Red map of Washington state?  Most of western Washington is blue.

          Have you looked at how much area those counties cover? Whatcom, Skagit, Snohomish, King and Pierce extend from the water to the cascades.

          A LOT of that area is rural.

          I can assure you eastern King County isn't voting Democratic and the same holds for other counties as well. Looking at it from just a county perspective is very misleading. (much like looking at red/blue by state on the national level) If you did it by precinct, I think you would see the I-5 coordidor being a river of blue in a sea of red.

          Second, yes, a lot of Dems crossed over and voted for Rossi.  You wanna know why?  One big reason is that rural Dems are totally ignored by the State Party and most of the state-wide campaigns.

          The race wasn't close because Gregoire neglected rural areas and lost them by large margins. The race was close because Gregoire was a lousy candidate and underperformed statewide. If Gregoire had done as well as Kerry in pretty much any county, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

          If anything, Gregoire spent too much time chasing rural voters instead of working on her obviously neglected urban base.

          Rossi got traction everywhere because he ran on a simple platform of "I'm an agent of change". Gregoire ran on a platform of "I'm a female Gary Locke."

          Focusing on Urban over Rural doesn't mean "focus on King County over the rest of the state". It means focus on the City of Spokane over Adams County. It means taking the City of Yakima over Okanogan County. The urban sections of otherwise rural counties are our greatest opportunity for growth. Urban voters are natural Democratic voters. Rural voters are not.

          --- My opinions are my own and not my employer's.

          by Aexia on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 12:41:39 AM PST

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          •  I guess we don't count? (none)
            While Eastern King County isn't voting Dem, the coastal and Olympic Peninsula rural counties are.  Grays Harbor, Jefferson, and Pacific Counties have been Democratic strongholds for decades. Or do those of us west of I-5 not count?  From your post, I can only assume so.

            I totally disagree that Gregoire spent too much time with the rural base.  She virtually ignored these rural areas.  She did little to no campaigning in rural Western WA.  And there were vast areas of Eastern WA that she never visited at all.  Nada.  Zip.

            Yes, courting voters in the population bases of the state is always a good thing.  I don't deny that it would be a mistake to neglect Spokane, the Tri-Cities, Moses Lake, Yakima, Vancouver, Kelso/Longview, etc.  But it is also a mistake to neglect the rural parts of the state as well.

            I do agree with you that Gregoire was a poor candidate who ran a poor campaign, in general.  I was a Talmadge supporter at first and then switched to Sims.  Gregoire was my candidate only because I was anti-Rossi.

            <<Urban voters are natural Democratic voters. Rural voters are not.>>

            I would love to hear you explain this!!  I couldn't disagree with you more.

            •  I'd be willing to bet... (none)
              While Eastern King County isn't voting Dem, the coastal and Olympic Peninsula rural counties are.  Grays Harbor, Jefferson, and Pacific Counties have been Democratic strongholds for decades. Or do those of us west of I-5 not count?  From your post, I can only assume so.

              it's the relatively urban areas of those counties(Port Townsend, Aberdeen, South Bend, etc) that vote Democratic and everywhere else votes Republican. The counties you're listing are not uniformly rural just as King County is not uniformly urban.

              Or do those of us west of I-5 not count?  From your post, I can only assume so.

              Counties aren't uniformly urban or rural. There are urban parts of "rural counties" that vote Democratic and rural parts of "urban counties" that vote Republican. Democrats should focus on the urban portions.

              I would love to hear you explain this!!  I couldn't disagree with you more.

              People who live in cities tend to vote Democratic. And the bigger the city, the larger the margin.

              --- My opinions are my own and not my employer's.

              by Aexia on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 05:47:47 PM PST

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        •  I Don't Get One Thing (none)
          Are mad because the Dems don't campaing in your area? Or are you mad because once they get into office they don't do anything for your district?  The second I understand, but the first seems a bit petty.  No offense, but if they believe (if perhaps mistakenly) that they can better spend their resources elswhere, shouldn't they?  

          When all else fails...panic

          by David in Burbank on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 08:15:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  They're both tied together (none)
            The state-wide Dem candidates don't spend enough time nor pay us enough attention.  And I don't mean just my county.  I mean virtually all the rural areas.  Again, without our votes, they have no chance to win.  King County may be the biggest county in the state but it can't do it alone.

            Granted, it's probably particularly galling to me that they ignore us so much when we're so close.  Aberdeen, the biggest town in my county, is only 50 minutes away from the State Capital.  And it's a beautiful drive, too.  

            Also, they tend to not discuss issues with us as my tale about the banning beach-driving issue illustrates.  I can only say that I'm thankful for my strong coastal caucus of legistors or this area would be even more ignored.  

            I fail to see how anyone can pretend to have an answer to a community that they are unfamiliar with.  Rural issues are very different than urban issues and require different solutions.  

            <<No offense, but if they believe (if perhaps mistakenly) that they can better spend their resources elswhere, shouldn't they?  >>

            And if they show such poor judgement in this area, why should I trust their judgement in other areas  and continue to support them.

    •  Why bother cuddling the right? (none)
      She can still win in 2008 as long as the totals are high enough in King County. And if she's that awful then she would probably face a primary challenge and lose, like Dixy Lee Ray.
      •  See my post above (2.66)
        Your attitude re rural Dems disgusts me.

        Do I sound angry?  Yeah...I am.  If you think that Washington state will stay blue based on King County, you're quite deluded.  

        I am tired of the elitist attitude of Seattleites concerning the importance of the rural Dems.  Without our votes, Gregoire would have lost and lost BIG.  No recount would have made a difference in the outcome.  Without our votes, Kerry might not even have won Washington state.  

        •  I think you need to get your violin repaired (none)
          You aren't in a prison camp, you're in rural Washington. Stop trying to bully people with your manipulative words like "disgust". I've never seen such whining in my life. You went on and on about all the mistakes Gregoire made and yet she did well in most of your area. If the Republicans let her get into office I highly doubt she will make the same mistakes again. But your me-me-me attitude does nothing but drive people away. If you ever wonder why the state party doesn't pay attention to your area, your yenta imitation probably doesn't help.
          •  Quartermaine is off base on this one... (none)
            Funkycamper is simply telling you the way it is and what can happen in our rural areas through neglect and mismanagment by the state party and some candidates.  He is right.  

            I, too, live in rural Western Washington in a county that went for Gregoire...but went a lot bigger for Kerry and Murray.  I blame the campaign and the state party for only 2  (count 'em, two) Gregoire signs in our whole damn county here on the peninsula!  We saw Chris twice...once in July at a D picnic and once at a private (!) event the week before the election, 2 weeks AFTER absentees were mailed!  Sheesh.  Rossi was all over the local papers with photos and stories the last month and pro-Rossi letters swamped the editors columns.

            The difference in the rural areas, just like in the urban ones who got all the campaign attention, is not Republican votes but independent votes.  With no Gregoire presence, getting those was very, very difficult and made this election as close as it was.  Democrats nationwide have a rougher row to hoe so it takes more work to get and keep the Dems engaged and the swing voters coming our way.  The locals can do it but they can't always do it alone.

            Past time for a new state chair...ABB...anybody but Berendt.

            Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

            by oldpro on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 12:14:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  From what I've heard (none)
              Barendt is a lock for re-election now that Gregoire is going to be Governor.

              Even if Gregoire had lost, it would've been difficult to unseat him.

              --- My opinions are my own and not my employer's.

              by Aexia on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 12:44:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Wrong (none)
            Gregoire barely carried Grays Harbor....by just a handful of votes.

            I'm sorry if the truth hurts but the Dems are in danger of losing what little rural support they have left if they don't start considering our issues in their decision-making.

            I think you're one of those urban-elites that is driving many rural Dems away from the party.  

            •  I've never lived in an urban area (none)
              but I know a professional victim when I see one. You would rather make yourself a martyr than help anyone. You just remind people in rural areas as to why they are moving away from Democrats. You're a shrieking headcase who helped Dino Rossi every step of the way.
    •  I honest;y do not care how long (none)
      this drags out.

      Not one of my friends or neighbors have mentioned anything about how long this is takings (and I do know all my neighbors) -

      so people should just chill -- just because Vance is wigging out does not really do anything for me at all -- though I am rather enjoying that he is showing the whole world that he is such an assh*le -- so sometime before Thursday he should have a total meltdown -- either that or he just wet his pants.

      ...Release the Hounds

      by sara seattle on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 12:10:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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