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View Diary: WA Gov -- s/p recount, Vance stirs (122 comments)

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  •  You're ignoring the public perception (none)
    Gregoire has nothing to be ashamed of but a crappy campaign.  I was in the room watching those votes be counted.  It was fair and square.  

    There are approximately 300 other people who can say what I just said.  There are 5 million other people in this state who are hearing one thing:  King County elections found 735 votes which had been thrown out, sued to count them, won, and Chris Gregoire is now ahead by 130 votes.  

    The only true statement there is that she's ahead by 130 votes.  But that doesn't matter to the average shmoe listening to Dori Monson or reading about Chris Vance's latest howling statement, seeing it on TV, or worse yet...getting it second and third hand at work from people who have been getting GOP e-mail updates.

    We know the truth.  But we are not the shapers of public opinion.  Understand something - Daily Kos is not a press release for the Democratic Party, nor is it all that widely read.  Seriously, a million daily hits - at most?  280 million Americans - 1 million = 279 million who don't know or give a shit what we know or think.  

    Gregoire faces a difficult task of earning the public's trust.  The Democratic Party and especially King County elections face an equally difficult task of earning the public's trust.  As I said in my inordinately long post a moment ago, I really won't pretend otherwise.

    I put things where they don't belong at Switzerblog.

    by switzerblog on Mon Dec 27, 2004 at 08:59:16 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not seeing the worst is not pretending (none)
      You talk about the image the public sees. But what image will they see if Republicans take this to court and the battle goes on so long that state government cannot begin? Will that really impress the public?

      How do you know that people in the state do not remember Gregoire already won by 10 votes? I'm sure that some of the media in Washington are pointing this out, even if the national media isn't. The national media has been obsessed with the holidays and with the disaster in Southeast Asia -- the national public are not obsessed with who is doing what in Washington state. Even the Ukraine elections got more publicity.

      You can still warn people to expect bad things without repeatedly telling everyone that this is horrible PR and the entire state hates Democrats.

      •  Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings (none)
        How do you know that people in the state do not remember Gregoire already won by 10 votes?

        Because many people in the state never knew she'd already won by 10 votes.  The media covered it, but in the "currently, CG leads by 10 votes pending the outcome of the Supreme Court ruling", which was both technically and factually incorrect, but is what folks heard...those that follow the news, anyway.

        The Washington media is not being generous with the details of the election - the details we already know, that make it clear this was a fair and honest win.  They are being generous with coverage of our friend Chairman Vance.  Details are boring.  Chris Vance being hysterical is a fun story to run.

        If it makes you feel better...expect bad things.  But other than that, everything's fine! /snark  And with that, I leave this tiresome parsing of my opinions.

        I put things where they don't belong at Switzerblog.

        by switzerblog on Mon Dec 27, 2004 at 09:31:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes it's certainly tiresome (none)
          I think that you honestly do believe that people here have never heard this before. You honestly believe that everyone here believes the media has accurately covered the story, Gregoire will waltz into office and the entire state will kiss her feet. So you need to tell us AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN about how horrible everything is, because you think you're doing us a favor.

          Well all you are really doing is making life miserable for people who already know about these problems but unlike you, do not need to tear their hair out for dramatic effect.

          You're so defensive every time someone points out that every point you make is "this sucks, this is the worst possible scenario". You shriek, "I never said that!!!" but you have said it a zillion times.

          We get the point already. You oh-so-nobly worked for the recount even though you hate Christine Gregoire. Now you have oh-so-nobly deigned to come to this diary and tell people over and over that Chris Vance gets a lot of media attention or that <gasp> Republicans will hold a grudge or <gasp> the media will make some people believe the election was rigged, and <gasp> Republicans will now say King County can't be trusted. And you lash out at anyone who tries to tell you that they already know this and unlike you, they're still trying their best to make the situation work.

          You spend so much time gasping you must need an oxygen mask as you wheel your way around various parts of the state. It's like the Paul Revere of the recounts.

          If anyone needs to know how awful Gregoire is or how talk radio has doomed all of Washington or how King County is now tainted. If anyone wants to actually work, then they will find a reasonable, worthwhile source.

          •  Give it a rest (none)
            Ray's opinion is well-informed, it's carefully considered, and while I don't entirely share it I am bound to respect it.

            As for your attempt to shame him into a more postive outlook, I'll give you the standard response I gave Kossites who attacked me in October for suggesting things didn't look so good going into November (on the misguided notion that "we" are somehow obligated to project a collective upbeat attitude):

            Fuck you, Quartermaine. (And a Happy New Year!)

            •  Kiss my ass, lapdog. (none)
              I trust your opinion about as much as I trust Switzer's. You spent so many months slandering Howard Dean that you shot any integrity you ever had. No one wants to hear your bullying and I'm not surprised that you hang around in packs with these types. You are so far out of touch and you think that makes you of the elite. You want everyone to hate you because you think it makes you a worthwhile person, gives you a reason to get up in the morning. It doesn't.

              I only criticized your special friend switzer because he was constantly telling people everything they did was worthless and that ooh golly King County was tainted or wow gee Republicans were sure mad at Gregoire. That's it. He really did think this was earthshattering news. And you follow right along.

              After your long and ugly history here, anything you respect is garbage. You clearly believe that any negative opinion is wonderful and any positive opinion is just worthless. You would rather be angry all the time and predict the worst because then you can vomit "I told you so" in everyone's faces. Fine. Enjoy yourself. But don't wave your flaccid, tiny profanity at me. Go find someone who is dumb enough to fall for your sick games.

    •  All you are stating (none)
      Is why it's so important to get the truth out.  If reporters or journalists state incorrections, phone up or write to them and hound them.

      It's like I said before, if they say "the people believe this election is tainted"  ask them over and over "who, aside from partisan Republicans believe that, and on what basis do they make that charge"

      There is one reason to believe the people of Washington will see this properly: we have the facts on our side.

      The people of Washington state are reasonble people that, I don't think, are as easily fooled by lies and empty holloring as you seem to think they are.

      •  Can we at least wait until the campaign to worry? (none)
        This really IS unnecessary handwringing. It's 100% distractive of anything real and principled. What is real?

        1. The election was close. Can this be changed? No.
        2. Once the automatic recount made the margin almost imperceptible, there was a moral imperative to count all ballots by the most discerning and open method possible, and rely on the results.

        what are the principles?

        1. For all her apparent faults, supporters of Gregoire believe her election will be a more positive event than if Rossi were to become governor.

        2. No matter what anyone says about theft, and however much we may worry about "how it looks," the right course was followed, and there is nothing to be ashamed of in the way the process was followed. The best possible count is the most important thing in a close election, because that insures that the proper person is seated.

        We were not going to get to 3 without 2, 4 be damned. That's the long and short of it. If that causes problems down the road and we are unable to ameliorate it, SO BE IT. It would not, either logically or morally, have changed any of the truisms and principles above. So be mindful of the spin, engage the spin--but for the love of Pete, let's get the proper person seated in 2004 before we start laying flowers on Cantwell's metaphoric grave.

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