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View Diary: Montana Wolf Hunt Destroys Yellowstone Study (221 comments)

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  •  I heard this story (3+ / 0-)

    I was unlucky enough to be waiting for a plane to Missoula in Seattle.  Rumor mongers, teabaggers, were surrounding me--telling how wolves had killed hundreds of sheep.  The folks around me were shocked, but there was no real, legitimate source attached to this story.  It started out of the mouth of a woman who said, "I hear..."  That's all it takes in that part of the world.  You just say, "I hear..." and it can be a rumor, outright lie, and it works for the group there.

    I was so sickened by their anti-nature bias that I had a panic attack in the back seat of one of the small Horizon planes.  The truth is, it would have done no good for me to speak up.  Our world is so full of statistics I can't possibly keep on top of them, and this particular group was only interested in the teabagger, kill-the-wolf species.

    Sorry this happened.  We pay because we cannot dispense information to the ignorant as fast as the rumors that are promulgated that mean to destroy.

    •  I'm Sorry, But... (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      badger, Fabian, MTmofo, eastmt, condorcet, ban nock

      Speaking as a Montanan, who's probably spent more time in nature than you and 99% of the other concerned Dailykos posters blogging about this issue from the comfort of Cincinnati, Washington DC, and Seattle, this is quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever heard:

      "I was so sickened by their anti-nature bias that I had a panic attack in the back seat of one of the small Horizon planes."

      And yes, hundreds of sheep have been killed, it's not just rumors.  Pretty regularly.  If you talk to anyone working in the local environmental/conservation groups (like say, myself) you'll find people acknowledging that.  We work closely with local farmers and ranchers to (amongst other things) try and get them compensated for livestock losses, try to educate them about the need for keeping the wolves here, and help them to keep their ranches going and undeveloped.

      You shit all over these guys, but they've been out here for several generations keeping this land pretty damn raw and undeveloped.  You drive them out of business in the name of 'protecting nature', and most of it gets sold off to real estate developers to plant subdivisions and McMansions on.

      •  Congratulations on your work (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marina

        But it is not good thing to paint them all with same brush as just ignorant city folk. BAD because they are concerned and discussing the diary. BAD becaus eyou don't know what they are doing in the area and how well they know what you claim as absolute expertise. I KNOW little about Montana but I do know farm life.

        Kind of reminds me of the woman I talked to once who lived in the rural area near me. She was certain that her country raised and smacked kids were so much better then the city kids. Well I can tell you I have lived in cities and on farms and on military bases... in houses or apartments or trailers or cabins. The kids in the city were just as likely to be good kids as the country kids. And when either is bad they are just a few of them. So those country kids might have 23 kids going to thier senior class at the local high school. And the high school my brother went to had 3600 graduating seniors ( this was in our years after we left farm). So if 10% are on bad behavior that would mean a couple in the country and 360 in the city. Looks a lot worse but the difference is meaningless.

        Anyway it sounds reasonable to me except for the real pleasure they take at killing. AS we grow in population we are pushing animals out and then we will still be filling up that land. So I actually think the problem is us.

      •  It doesn't sound like the teabaggers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        brillo

        are the same folks you work with. I've lived and worked outdoors in Idaho and Washington and other states, and I understand your description of farmers and ranchers and local groups. They usually have a keen knowledge of and appreciation for a balanced environment and wildlife, though, unlike the teabaggers who simply vent hatred for anything environmentalists or conservationists may advocate.

        Thanks for your very important good work.

        •  They Probably Weren't. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, ban nock

          The person I was replying to was just labeling them as such because much of the left is unable to differentiate between rural people or conservatives in general, and the teabaggers.  Not that they aren't one and the same just as often.

          The bottom line though is that this kind of lazy stereotyping by many of the people in this thread is annoying and counterproductive given our shared goals in this region.  

      •  Livestock guardian dogs can help. (0+ / 0-)

        LGDs are most effective against every other predator but wolves - cougar, coyote, bear and even predatory birds.

        Wolves are more difficult because they hunt in packs, instead of alone.  It takes a higher LGD/livestock ratio to provide deterrence and protection against wolves, but it can be done.

        In an interesting twist,livestock producers who don't clean up carcasses can not ask for wolf control efforts.  Carcasses are considered wolf attractants - so producers who don't clean up dead animals are essentially considered helping to create a predator problem.  (BTW - when you read the number of livestock killed and LGDs injured or killed, you should realize that one LGD is worth more than any average steer or sheep.)

        Show me the POLICY!

        by Fabian on Tue Jan 05, 2010 at 05:55:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wolves may hunt in packs, but the hunt is (0+ / 0-)

          not a co-ordinated. It's every wolf for themselves, unlike lions or hyenas.

          An eye for and eye makes the whole world blind - Mahatma Gandhi. Find me and my recipes @ politicook.net

          by TX Scotia on Tue Jan 05, 2010 at 12:56:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yabbut (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TX Scotia

            one LGD can hold off a single wolf.  Yes, they are that good.  But against multiple wolves, a single LGD would be defeated.  The report of not just one, but two LGDs killed implies that the wolves had declared that region their territory and true to their canine natures, set out to eliminate competition.

            LGDs work by claiming territory as their own.  This works as long as they are the biggest and baddest "pack" in the area.  If wolves move in and plan to stay, they will systematically challenge and attack any competitors.  According to canine customs, that can include coyotes, pet dogs (not to be confused with LGDs) and LGDs.  

            My dog taught me a lot about the way that canines interact, even though he was only 1/4 Great Pyrenees.  I likened him to what would happen if you successfully domesticated a wolf.  All the skills, all the intelligence - minus the unrestrained predatory behavior.

            Show me the POLICY!

            by Fabian on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:55:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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