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View Diary: My Comment upon Unsubscribing from OFA (145 comments)

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  •  Different interpretation . . . (2+ / 0-)
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    churchylafemme, Surly Cracker
    1. "You yourself are saying that what you are demanding is unachievable in this political climate, and yet you "don't care". Think about what this means, and how it reads."

    No, the diarist is saying pretty clearly that the odds of success are unlikely, but that the president still owes it to his supporters to use his bully pulpit and political capital to change the status quo.

    The diarist clearly cares about changing the status quo; the diarist though doesn't care about excuses that politicians use to avoid taking on the task.

    1. "Between ARRA and the FY2010 budget, the Administration has allocated roughly a quarter trillion dollars to clean energy."

    Unless you are counting standard year-to-year funding for government agencies as part of the "clean energy" allocation, I am counting less than $100 bill for new R&D programs between the two bills.

    1. Financial reform.

    The administration hasn't done jack squat at this point on the issue -- unless you count a PR event involving Wall Street bankers as "policy".  Obama's financial people too are basically punting on this issue.

    1. Mortgage relief.

    Agreed that the problem is mostly in the Senate right now.  Although a more adept leader could have found ways to leverage this issue via Treasury.  The Treasury Dept. has been excessively deferential to the big players.

    1. Gay rights.

    We'll see.

    1. Giving up on the president.

    It's not "giving up on the president" to criticize his actions, or to hold him accountable for campaign promises.

    •  I will let the diarist... (0+ / 0-)

      tell me what he/she is "saying pretty clearly".

      ...and you seem to be willfully ignoring the clean-energy work that the Administration has done.

      I elected the man to a four-year term, and I am going to give him my support during that time period. You are free to criticize and denigrate as you like.

      "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?"

      by Cure7802 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 at 03:29:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The diarist tipped . . . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme, Surly Cracker

        my comment, maybe that too is not clear enough evidence for you that my interpretation of the diary is in the ballpark.  So be it.

        In reference to the clean-energy work, I am not "willfully" ignoring work that the administration has done.

        You made a specific claim: "Between ARRA and the FY2010 budget, the Administration has allocated roughly a quarter trillion dollars to clean energy."

        The evidence that I find in those bills for clean energy spending doesn't support the claim you are making.

      •  This: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme

        the diarist is saying pretty clearly that the odds of success are unlikely, but that the president still owes it to his supporters to use his bully pulpit and political capital to change the status quo.

        The diarist clearly cares about changing the status quo; the diarist though doesn't care about excuses that politicians use to avoid taking on the task.

        is correct. My point in saying:

        I DO demand an intellectual and moral honesty and rigor that is unachievable in "Modern Washington," in the partisan corporatist cesspool that has replaced our representative democracy. I don't care. I want you to get up there and do it, use the bully pulpit and your "political capital," and whatever else you've got to leverage and fix my country.

        was that I disapprove of the "Way Washington Is" and I expect the President, among his many other obligations, to try and fix it.

        It's a big job. But that is ostensibly why we have hugely expensive and lengthy elections, to determine who the best man or woman in the country is for the job. It's the part where we're lately just choosing the lesser of the evils Corporate America has already pre-approved for us that really pisses me off.

        Dance like no one is watching with one fist in the air... We are stronger than everything they have taught us that we should fear.

        by Surly Cracker on Tue Jan 05, 2010 at 04:26:59 PM PST

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        •  If you folks truly believe... (0+ / 0-)

          that the President has not tackled these issues and is a "corporate sell-out" in spite of abundant evidence to the contrary, then nothing I can say will possibly convince you otherwise. Some of you seem to enjoy negativity for whatever reason, enjoy being jaded, cynical, and angry.

          You are perfectly within your rights to have this attitude, but personally, I think it is a waste of time and energy that could be put to far more constructive uses.

          Go ahead and be angry though. It is your lives.

          "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?"

          by Cure7802 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 at 04:54:37 PM PST

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          •  You should examine (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cure7802

            What our motivations for writing that comment are. You are the one rushing full speed to label me as angry and cynical, and continue to insist that I'm bashing the President.

            On the contrary, I was implying that President Obama is probably our only hope to counteract the culture in DC that has led to much of the governance of this country being dictated by the agendas and balance sheets of the corporations that lobby and donate to political campaigns.

            However, until he starts taking some serious actions that will benefit Americans without regard to what Goldman-Sachs and Blue Cross and whoever else think about them, I can't accept on faith alone that he's acting in my interest, as opposed to the interests of the companies that, despite a lot of talk of "small donors," made up the majority of the cash he raised on '08.

            I want him to do this stuff, and believe he wants to do it as well. I'm just not willing to put blind faith in anyone.

            Dance like no one is watching with one fist in the air... We are stronger than everything they have taught us that we should fear.

            by Surly Cracker on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 05:53:32 AM PST

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            •  typo - "YOUR motivations" nt (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cure7802

              Dance like no one is watching with one fist in the air... We are stronger than everything they have taught us that we should fear.

              by Surly Cracker on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 05:56:02 AM PST

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            •  I see your point, and I should not have... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Surly Cracker

              lumped you in with some of the more hostile commentors. I hope you understand the frustrations of the those who are still very supportive of the President though. It is infuriating to come here to what is ostensibly a partisan Democratic blog and see the sitting Democratic President denigrated in the way that he has been, especially after less than a year in office.  

              I also do not believe I am putting blind faith in the President. I certainly have faith, but I am also quite confident in the research and thought I have put into supporting him. I have been following Obama since even before his convention speech in 2004 (watching him demolish Crazy Alan Keyes) and what he says now is largely what he was saying then. I am actually impressed with how much he has been able to accomplish in spite of the political climate in Washington, and how little his message has changed over the years. I suppose that is the major difference between us.

              As far as him kowtowing to corporate influence, I would make several points. One is that while he challenged special interests during the campaign, he was never an Edwards bash-the-corporations type candidate (even Edwards wasn't an Edwards-type anti-corporate candidate...he just wanted folks to think he was). The President believes (as I do) that corporate enterprise is an integral part of the US and global economy. Would we like to see less corporate influence in Washington? Undoubtedly. But frankly, if he declared jihad on all corporate influence in Washington his agenda would die on the vine; Goldman, Blue Cross, etc. are part of the system, and unraveling that is not going to occur quickly even if he railed against them every day from the Oval Office.

              More broadly, and though you may disagree, the President doesn't view corporations as evil, and I agree with him. GE might be hated for their contribution to the financial crisis and their media empire, but I would guess most of us are thankful for their industrial unit being able to build cutting-edge, hgh-output wind turbines. Big banks are even more hated, but we are going to need their financing for all sorts of clean energy projects going forward. Lumping the tens of thousands of corporate entities into one big pile and slapping an "evil" label on the thing seems to be grossly simplifying the issue.

              Boiling it down to the essentials, I believe that the President is the best friend progressives have, and that supporting him and having patience in him is the most effective way to get done what we need to get done.

              That is my motivation.

              "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?"

              by Cure7802 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 07:02:50 AM PST

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              •  Absolutley. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cure7802

                I was attempting to make basically the same point. I don't think the concept of corporate enterprise is evil, just that companies, after a certain point, tend to function solely based on dollars and not on their impact (positive or negative) on actual humans. It's a natural progression for a big business, but one that I think government has a responsibility to monitor and intercede in when harm is being done. Hell, it's funny you mention GE, as my job is at least partially dependent on a product they manufacture, so clearly I owe them something in my personal life.

                I don't think the President is bad, and I don't think his accomplishments thus far are anything to sneeze at. However, he was elected by riding the wave of a very populist message, and there are people in this country (not people around here so much as people like my parents who I converted from Republicans to Dems over the course of about 20 years of effort) that don't follow every issue closely, and rely on MSM to tell them what's going on in the world. These people are being told every day that the Administration is in dissaray, that Obama hasn't lived up to his promises, etc. Now, most of that "reporting" is bullshit, but honestly, it's hard to sell my mom on Lily Ledbetter when she doesn't have a job at which to be discriminated against. There is a feeling among people who aren't policy wonks that they've been had to a certain extent.

                I'm somewhere in the middle, in that I understand and follow the policy, but I am not so caught up in it as to be oblivious to the fact that it's not generating enough positive change in the day-to-day lives of the middle class currently to help us much in the 2010 elections.

                Dance like no one is watching with one fist in the air... We are stronger than everything they have taught us that we should fear.

                by Surly Cracker on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 10:47:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I guess I'm just not that worried... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Surly Cracker

                  about the 2010 elections this far out (call me a moderate optimist). If trends hold, by late summer unemployment will be dropping (though still too high), the economy will have been growing, health-care and some form of energy/climate bill will have passed, and some of the longer-term stimulus funded infrastructure projects will be well underway. Meanwhile the Republicans have lost their fucking minds, teabaggers are busy funding primary challengers to some of the most conservative congress-critters in the country, and the Democrats are outraising Republicans by leaps and bounds.

                  If we're in the same place in October that we are now, then I'll be real worried. I just don't see that happening.

                  ...and as far as the President being elected upon a populist wave, I will agree to an extent. However, Obama never really portrayed himself as a populist, and personally, I am glad he is not. I like cool rationalism, not populist anger. And as far as the media doom-and-gloom goes, there is not much we can do at this point, other than direct people to other sources. Additionally, you know how the MSM likes a narrative... the current one is the President is a disapointment. Soon enough though, they'll have the "Resurrection of Obama" meme going.

                  I think patience and strategic vision is the name of the game.

                  ...btw, I've enjoyed this conversation. Far less heat and far more light would help the discourse around here immensely.

                  "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?"

                  by Cure7802 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 11:39:56 AM PST

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