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View Diary: What Do We Lose by Mirandizing Nigerian Who Sought to Blow Up Plane on Christmas Day? (40 comments)

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  •  If you arrest a foreign national (5+ / 0-)

    ...for a US felony (and the person does not have diplomatic immunity), are they routinely given a Miranda warning?

    This case should be handled like any other similar case against a foreign national.

    Good law enforcement against terrorists needs to have certain principles: no fear, no panic, no shortcuts, no drama, and no martyrdom (symbolic or actual).

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 03:49:32 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  They do get mirandized, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TarheelDem, otto

      unless they're operating in concert w/ an organization against which the war powers have been activated via US law.  The cases are readily distinguishable.

      Again, I agree w/ you as a matter of policy (agreeing w/ jsfox above about unnecessarily glorifying thugs as warriors), but we certainly can forego mirandizing al-qaeda operatives.

      Mom, the mall is a way for the corporate fatcats to imprison you into a life of servitude. I've got some stuff you should read.

      by burrow owl on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 03:52:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know the answer to this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        burrow owl, lyvwyr101

        We know he is Al Qaeda because...

        "I'm going to take a dump and come back. If it hasn't been changed...I'll take it to mean that... it is meant to deliberately misinform Kossacks." Setrak

        by otto on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 03:56:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I got that via osmosis from the chattering (0+ / 0-)

          classes, so it could be wrong.  I'm happy to put all the above in the subjunctive mood.

          Mom, the mall is a way for the corporate fatcats to imprison you into a life of servitude. I've got some stuff you should read.

          by burrow owl on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:09:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do think he is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lyvwyr101

            That's not really the issue.  

            We can't rely on him, nor can we rely on Al Qaeda to give us accurate information about his status with the organization.  

            In my opinion, that negates the idea that it is his affiliation that is the reason to not give him Miranda rights.

            "I'm going to take a dump and come back. If it hasn't been changed...I'll take it to mean that... it is meant to deliberately misinform Kossacks." Setrak

            by otto on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:14:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  These days (0+ / 0-)

            the chattering classes are more gossip mongers then anything else.  In the absence of good information they'll start "supposing" stuff.. and then the next one treats the supposition as fact and adds a little more of their own for good measure.

            The 24 hour news cycle is the worst thing that could possibly have happened to serious journalism.  Yes, it's even worse then FAUX acting as the conservative shill that it is.  They've almost gotten to the point that they have more talking heads yakkin it up, then actual reporters doing research and digging up leads.

            "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Elliot Trudeau

            by Thassa on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 07:55:13 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Because Mutallab said he was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          otto

          and AQ in the Arabian Peninsula acknowledged it.

          "The lying time will be over." Senator Sheldon Whitehouse

          by never forget 2000 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 08:29:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not that I doubt it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            never forget 2000

            It was in reference to the comment about it being no big deal to not mirandize a member of Al Qaeda.  

            We mirandize him because it's the right thing to do, but even if we weren't going to do it, we can't trust the statements of Al Qaeda and/or its alleged operatives to provide us accurate information about their membership.  

            That is enough reason to treat all suspects the same.

            "I'm going to take a dump and come back. If it hasn't been changed...I'll take it to mean that... it is meant to deliberately misinform Kossacks." Setrak

            by otto on Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 07:49:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Are the war powers compatible (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        burrow owl, lyvwyr101

        with a criminal trial, though?

        It seems to me that a failure to properly Mirandize would at the very least present a major obstacle to bringing a case before a civilian court. At least, it seems to me that it should.

        There are a couple of optical advantages. Reading of rights is symbolic of due process, and helps reinforce one of Obama's core messages he wishes to send overseas, that we are once again going to live our highest ideals; and it also helps define Abdulmuttalab as a "mere" criminal, declining to grant any appearance of "warrior" status.

        In America, 60% of bankruptcies are because of medical bills, and 80% of those people had health insurance

        by sullivanst on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:10:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sullivanst

          Regardless of whether they are his goals, it makes sense to do it, because they are our shared goals as a country.  

          My friend who is a total Deadhead and otherwise a fairly liberal person was up in arms the other night.  He was just talking about lining them up and shooting them.  I said, "Who?"  He said anyone that tries to bomb a plane, but I'm sure he had other people in mind.  

          I tried getting him to understand the idea that by martyring the man, you're just increasing his status.  

          "I'm going to take a dump and come back. If it hasn't been changed...I'll take it to mean that... it is meant to deliberately misinform Kossacks." Setrak

          by otto on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:16:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The people who say "Eeek, Miranda" are (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shahryar

        dealing with bad defense lawyers. When facing a life sentence in Super max crime, any defense lawyer worth his or her fee will be working on an information for a softer sentence deal as soon as he or she figures out what the defendant has that the prosecution wants. This is a no-brainer, and the joy of it is that when such deals are made, the information is also usable because properly obtained, in other proceedings. Assuming this numb noodle so sly that a) he had a bomb in his pants and b) he didn't know how to set it off ande c) he came back into the cabin where people could see instead of staying in the loo where they could not, with predictable results, has any information at all that the prosecution wants.

    •  Mirandize everyone. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      otto, Shahryar, Christy1947, Thassa

      Rule of Law.

      Everything that matters about this country.....

      Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + Pro-Life Christians

      =EQ=

      The GOPer Base

      by vets74 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:15:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Under US law, al-Q ops don't have to be. (0+ / 0-)

        Mom, the mall is a way for the corporate fatcats to imprison you into a life of servitude. I've got some stuff you should read.

        by burrow owl on Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 04:16:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Disappointing, burrow owl (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shahryar

          We captured and imprisoned and in some cases murdered innocent people - and we lied about it to our own citizens. The Nigerian needs to be mirandized for one simple reason: People in power cannot be trusted with absolute power. You should know this.

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