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View Diary: The Vote Our Way Or We Shoot You Party (134 comments)

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  •  We haven't had violent revolutionaries... (0+ / 0-)

    ...on the Left SINCE the freaking Weather Underground and the Symbionese Liberation Army. What was that? Mid '70s?

    One of the reasons why DLC Dems like President Obama and their corporate masters don't see the need for a second New Deal.

    In the 1930s there was a very vital and vibrant Radical Left at work in the US. There was a definite chance that if the New Deal didn't succeed, that there would be Bolsheviks stringing up Plutocrats with the guts of Priests in the streets. The stakes were that high.

    I don't believe in violent revolution, but the fact of the matter is that the Teabaggers and their ilk do not pose any danger to the American Plutocracy, just as the Nazis and the Fascisti and the Falangists did not pose any danger to the Plutocracy in Germany, Italy and Spain during the '30s and '40s. We simply don't have a leftist threat to Big Capital. So there's no pressure on the Powers That Be to "give a little to keep a lot."

    The next OneCare Happy Hour will be January 29, 2010.
    Anti-marriage equality = bigotry

    by Pris from LA on Thu Jan 14, 2010 at 07:55:59 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Are you suggesting that the WU or (0+ / 0-)

      SLA were effective counterforces to the war in Viet Nam, racism, or other issues of that era?

      In the case of the former, I remember a bunch of upper class kids playing revolutionary. In the case of the latter, a cult formed around an ex-con.

      The Black Panthers were a more serious movement until they self-destructed.

      In all cases, their existence seemed more likely to provide grist to the reactionary mill than to build lasting alternatives.

      I don't believe Big Capital was a enamored of the right wing nationalists you cite. Sure, at first, as a way to suppress labor movements. But then the genie was out of the bottle and uncontrollable. The economies of Korea, Japan, and Spain for example grew most rapidly once their more rabid right wing was dislodged. Brazil being a more recent example.

      My point being that as a noisy controllable minority,
      you are correct, the Tea Baggers pose no threat and can be used by Big Capital; their emergence regarding the Health Care debate had some big money behind it (the billionaire Koch family for example). But a real Tea Bagger government is the last thing they would want. Too uncontrollable.

      I don't disagree that a more radical left would gain some traction in small doses, a kind of wake up call as it were. The flipside to the Tea Baggers; I think this is what you are saying.

      I also agree with your analysis of the 1930s though I feel the IWW was more widespread and effective than those who were more aligned with the Soviets, particulary once Stalin's crimes became
      unignorable.

      Is it even possible to radically challenge Big Captial
      with something new, that is something that doesn't require the tiresome boilerplate thinking of the past two centuries? The rhetoric and analysis of most radical leftism strikes me as antiquated as a Nickolodeon in an age of DVDs.

      I would hope that there would be a way to advocate for better wages, socialized medicine, localism in the face of multi-nationalism without having to unearth such hoary chestnuts as "dialetical materialism" and the like.

      To me, looking through a 21st Century lens, using technology in the open source model, more unionization, decentralization of agricultural policy (localism) and other pragmatic steps is far more radical than going back to a German philospher and the tyrants he inspired.

      Any thoughts?

      •  I'm not saying the WU and the SLA were effective. (0+ / 0-)

        THEY WEREN'T. Neither was MOVE in Philadelphia. But they were the LAST.

        I am also not an adherent to Marxism. Marx was good at analyzing the problems with 19th Century Europe, but he was bad at coming up with solutions. Aside from Cuba and North Korea there remains no country that has retained Marxist/Leninist/Maoist economics. Even the Leftist authoritarian governments in Venezuela and Bolivia are best described as post-Marxist in nature.

        I am just saying that there is NOTHING on the Left that makes a remotely credible threat to big business in the US at this time. So being that the Masters of the Universe have no anti-Capitalist movement that poses anywhere near a threat to their livelihoods, it is quite likely that the stimulus we need to get out of the "Great Recession" (I still use the D-word to describe what we're in right now) will never be applied, and we will not see WPA-like mass job programs to deal with the unemployed.

        The next OneCare Happy Hour will be January 29, 2010.
        Anti-marriage equality = bigotry

        by Pris from LA on Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 10:27:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with you. (0+ / 0-)

          The crisis we presently find ourselves in provides an opportunity for real change but we are essentially throwing a 30ft rope to the man drowning 50ft off the pier.

          Thanks for your thoughtful and intelligent comments.

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