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View Diary: WGLB Special Edition- "Kill-The-Gays" Bill author coming to National Prayer Breakfast! (214 comments)

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  •  So when President Obama... (16+ / 0-)

    ...doesn't forcefully condemn him, what can we learn from that?

    The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

    by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:21:33 AM PST

    •  that would be a step too far. (17+ / 0-)

      I can't imagine him not forcefully speaking up/out if he does attend. And I do expect him to both attend and to give a lecture to this bigot, if in fact he does get a visa.

      Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

      by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:24:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can imagine him... (17+ / 0-)

        ...addressing it indirectly, in a very diluted, weak way.  

        The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

        by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:25:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is no nuance to this. I agree with Alec. (14+ / 0-)

          Hearts weren't made to be broken by promises so often not kept.

          by Liberalindependent28 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:26:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  if they share a podium or what ever they do (9+ / 0-)

          at these things, I can't imagine no confrontation occurring. Especially if Michelle is along side.

          Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

          by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:31:37 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Alec - think about it for a minute (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cooper888

          The entire world's attention is on Haiti right now.  Obama's focus is likely going to be on that as it should be.  On "our" issue, it could be argued that he's faced with a "lose/lose" proposition:

          * He focuses on the Uganda situation, and then gets crucified for being uncaring about Haiti.

          or

          * He focuses on Haiti and we crucify him for not being our fierce advocate.

          We can't make him do either, so I'm with ridemybike in suggesting that our focus should be on what we can do:  protest.  Both outside the venue and inside if we can find clever infiltrators a la ACT UP.

          If Obama addresses the Uganda issue even briefly backed up by our protest actions thereby elevating it from the attention of Rachel Maddow and troutfishing's diaries to the "Nightly News" even for one news cycle, he will have done some good.

          •  This is how excuses are made for him (13+ / 0-)

            I'm not going to be a part of that.  That's just insanity; would you say the same thing if this was a bill targeting any other group? No, you wouldn't.  

            The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

            by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:37:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Being dismissive of reality (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KentuckyKat, cooper888

              doesn't make you right, Alec.  I understand and to an extent share your disappointment that he's not been more of a "fierce advocate."  But sometimes being a fierce advocate requires having a big picture point-of-view (outside our bubble) and recognizing that actions/statements that might be popular in the short-term (i.e. Clinton's attempt to lift the ban in the military) can have long-term consequences when the backlash hits (i.e. DADT).

              Disrupt the apple cart at the National Prayer Breakfast when the vast majority of Americans perceive it as a kum-bay-ah feel-good event oblivious to The Family (unless they've seen Maddow)?  Fraught with risk, both for him politically AND for the goals we're trying to accomplish.

              Maybe that puts me in the "makes excuses for him" camp.  If so, so be it.  But my goals are the same as yours.

              •  If Coakley loses, GLBT folks will be waiting (11+ / 0-)

                another 15-20 yrs for the chance to move towards real equality. While the president takes this overly cautious approach and plays make-nice with the blue dogs, our time is slipping away.

                Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 09:59:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  We might flip OH with a Progressive Senator (9+ / 0-)

                  in 2010 which would make up for Coakley's loss. Hopefully Coakley won't lose, of course, but yeah.

                  Hearts weren't made to be broken by promises so often not kept.

                  by Liberalindependent28 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 10:01:42 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Seems I might be looking through a different lens (0+ / 0-)

                  Obama clearly prefers a legislative approach to solving the legislative disasters of the Clinton years.  Without "making nice" to the blue dogs and with the Repubs united in opposition, I don't see how we move forward otherwise and how we're still not looking at a longer horizon than we'd prefer without support from the blue pigs/dogs/whatever.  Can he realistically say "follow my lead or else"?  I don't think he's got quite that mandate right now.

                  •  DADT can be unfunded as of last january (8+ / 0-)

                    while legislation catches up to public sentiment on this. Our other issues he could be prodding a bit more rather than showing up at HRC events. 10 minutes of angry phone calls to Capital Hill legislators would have gone a lot farther in advancing our causes than introducing Lady Gaga!

                    Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                    by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 02:23:20 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  It seems like no matter what strategy we employ (6+ / 0-)

                      we are met by deaf ears from many Democratic Senators and Congresspeople. It's funny, though, that for as much as they are unwilling to listen to calls for action when we get them elected they are willing to talk down to us about supporting them despite ignoring a host of issues...

                      Hearts weren't made to be broken by promises so often not kept.

                      by Liberalindependent28 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 02:56:43 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I feel ya' (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tnichlsn

                      but still feel this is a cheap shot against a guy who we need to be on our side?  What do we gain by abondoning him at the end the first year of his first term?  DADT could be part of the defense re-authorization bill again this year?  Hello?  Advocacy to congress critters to get on board for that?  Or just bitching?  C'mon we can do better than just complain, can't we?

                      •  you need to learn how politics in the real world (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        musing85, sberel, Predictor, Lady Kestrel

                        works. No one is abandoning anyone! You think we're all gonna run out and campaign for Palin because we're pissed that Obama is acting timid on our issues? Or maybe a teabagger? You get squat by sitting on your hands and being good little gays and lesbians and not raising a ruckus! Ever heard that phase about squeaky wheels? Obama himself told us to hold his feet to the fire. So you are welcome to sit on the sidelines and play the good little house gay while the rest of us try to hold the president accountable for the promises he made to us repeatedly in the campaign.

                        Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                        by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 03:30:57 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I've been in the trenches for over twenty years. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          tnichlsn

                          I road-tripped to support Harvey Gant in his bid to unseat Jesse Helms back in the day.  I've been to three LGBT Marches on Washington (including one that I didn't fully agree with back in October 2009), and countless other acts of advocacy and countless other dollars donated.

                          I was and have been a sqeaky wheel long before some of the newcomers to this commununity were out of diapers.  I never mentioned Palin or tea-baggers in any sense - that's all on you.  

                          For you to imply that I'm sitting on the sidelines by expressing my point-of-view and thereby being "a good little house gay" is more offensive to me than I can find words for right now.  Seriously.  I'm stunned by that assertion someone from  I've respected like you.  My disappointment is very deep and very profound, and not something I think I'll be able to overcome.

                          Politics in the real world is a combination of squeaky wheels and seats at the table.  For you to imply otherwise suggests that I'm not the only one who needs to learn how "politics in the real world works."

                          Clearly my POV isn't welcome here.  I'll remove myself from the DKGLBT listserv and only chime in on subjects where I can be one of the "cool kids" while continuing to advocate outside of this insular echo-chamber. I thought being a second-class citizen sucked.  Being a third-class citizen f'ing stinks.

                          •  you are advocating the we let up and stop (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85, craigkg, Predictor, Clarknt67

                            criticizing. and I'm fed up with that line of reasoning around here. it is racist to think that this president is incapable of dealing with our legislation with all the rest that is on his plate. I'm not saying that that is the case with you, but I am very angry at the folks who are supposedly progressives telling us to keep still and everything will come up roses. The real world doesn't work that way and the clock is ticking. sorry if I offended. but this line of reasoning I find offensive.

                            Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 04:37:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Terry, what? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tnichlsn

                            it is racist to think that this president is incapable of dealing with our legislation with all the rest that is on his plate.

                            This doesn't sound like you, at least I hope not.

                          •  this president is a Harvard graduate, and is more (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85, Predictor, Clarknt67

                            than capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, unlike W. For folks to imply he is too preoccupied to spend a little political capital on our issues is insulting to the president and insulting to me as a Harvard professor.

                            Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 04:48:03 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Which brings us back to (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tnichlsn

                            racist?

                          •  exactly my point! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Predictor

                            Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 05:11:32 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  please see comment up/down thread. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Predictor

                            Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 11:59:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  upon reflection, i need to apologize to you for (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CDH in Brooklyn, KentuckyKat

                            my tone in this thread. I respect the work that you've done and I also respect the folks who are unswerving in their loyalty to this president. And you are spot on when you say we need both squeaky wheels and seats at the table. Please accept my apology.
                              As for the 'racist' charge further down thread. I know this president is terribly intelligent and very much capable of multitasking. For people to imply that he is too preoccupied with the dozen other things on his plate to step up on our behalf and on our issues vastly underestimates the guys talents and does him an injustice.

                            Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 11:28:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  the proper reply would have been, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Predictor

                        I agree, but I still feel the president should have his feet held to the fire and is capable of being more proactive in things like DADT.

                        Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                        by tnichlsn on Mon Jan 18, 2010 at 12:02:21 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  how'd that line-thu get there? (0+ / 0-)

                          sorry. ignore the cross out.

                          Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                          by tnichlsn on Mon Jan 18, 2010 at 12:03:41 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

              •  State sponsored murder of gay people (13+ / 0-)

                That's what we're talking about here.  If speaking against that is fraught with risks then there's no point in us pushing for anything.

                The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

                by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 10:05:19 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Over-simplicification (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Predictor

                  We're also talking about the current state-of-affairs in the US mainstream media in the soundbite era.

                  The Harry Reid "negro" brou-ha-ha was rehashed AGAIN this morning on at least one of the Sunday talk shows.  An unsourced non-quote.  In a book rehashing 2008.  A week after the story broke.

                  I hope you realize that I'm NOT arguing AGAINST speaking out against state-sponsored murder of gay people, but rather that there's a very distint possibility that this odious individual has been invited specifically to put Obama in a no-win situation, given the sad state of affairs in non-Maddow media these days.  Maybe the "National Prayer Breakfast" is the right place to make a stand, maybe not.  I'm honestly not sure.  Skipping it definitely doesn't seem smart to me though, from a consequences POV.  So, going back to your original question, I'll hope for a carefully crafted yet strong statement in opposition to the bill, while also showing compassion to the people of Haiti and to Americans who're suffering due to the economy and everything else that needs to be prayed for, amongst those who have faith in that kind of thing (me: not so much).

              •  I think that he could do it (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                tnichlsn, Predictor

                in a way that would not be offensive...he's an excellent speaker and I would lay money on his ability to find a way to say it without starting a sh*tstorm

                We all have the same ideals ... the same goals. It's our road maps that differ.

                by KentuckyKat on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 08:47:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Well, (6+ / 0-)

            an assumption you seem to be making is that the President can only talk about one thing at this event. It might be true that he is asked to limit himself to one topic. I doubt it, but it might be true.

            If it isn't true, I see no reason why the president can't address the disaster in Haiti and the disaster in Uganda.

            Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

            by unspeakable on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 10:24:39 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Please see the last sentence in my comment (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Predictor

              about addressing it even briefly, as well as my other comment directly above this.   My main point is about having realistic expectations.

              •  The brevity... (7+ / 0-)

                ...of his commentary on it isn't the question, it's the quality of what he says.  In one minute he can say something rather powerful; he could speak at length for five and say nothing at all.  That's the test here.  Let's hope he doesn't fail.  

                The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

                by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 11:50:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I thank you (0+ / 0-)

                  for making my point better than I made it myself.  I take a bit of relief, minor though it may be, that you agree that he should attend and speak out (as opposed to the much-recced position that he should refuse to attend on principle).

                  In mentioning that Haiti would be front and center at this year's NPB, I was driving at getting our folks to not expect Uganda to be the overriding message of his remarks, but rather one component of a broader message.  Seems I either didn't express it well, or that sometimes in our passion we're not that good at seeing the bigger picture.

                  So with that said, here's to one good minute in the broader context, and banging of pots and pans outside the hotel.

                  •  I personally... (9+ / 0-)

                    ...don't think any president should attend "National Prayer Breakfast" or similar religious events in their official capacity; mindful that this would be politically untenable given the American proclivity for mixing state affairs with these pretentious displays of religiosity, I don't expect him not to attend.  But as you note yourself, any "fierce advocate" worth his salt would forcefully condemn the murder of people he claims to advocate for.  

                    There will not be "one good minute," I predict, because the president and his party are both weak on this issue.  That such an individual would be invited to this event speaks volumes about the bipartisan contempt for gay people and the blood that "believers" have on their hands.  But given the disgraceful performance of this party and president on gay rights to date, I cannot say I'm surprised that he would decline the opportunity to rebuke an anti-gay hate monger.  What more could one expect from a man who invites them to bless his administration?

                    The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words

                    by Alec82 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 01:15:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  no presidents should be attending these events. (8+ / 0-)

                    this group is a cult. why add credibility to their cause, which in most instances is contrary to the separation of church and state.

                    Mr. President, I realize you've got a lot on your plate, but we've been starving at the back of the line. Please throw us a few crumbs like ending DADT & DO

                    by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 01:16:04 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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