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View Diary: Holder/DoJ Cover-up on Torture Memos Investigation: Who is David Margolis? (358 comments)

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  •  A shallow political position of no substance (10+ / 0-)

    If, as you maintain... "A president who's not willing to allow his military to do the things in the appendix is going to be called weak by the voters. That's what America is"... is true, then there is no reason to support Obama, or the GOP, or another politician of any stripe. It's over. Finito. Who could support a leader that would capitulate to forces that support torture simply because otherwise they might call him "weak."

    If that's how you intend to get Obama elected in 2012, you are going to learn something awful about such screwed up twistings of political logic and morality: they don't win elections. Bush/Cheney/Rove won because of money interests, not cynicism or racism or militarism. Trying to match their political amorality will not work.

    War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

    by Valtin on Sun Jan 31, 2010 at 10:27:18 PM PST

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    •  So selfish. So selfish. (2+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      magurakurin, soothsayer99
      Hidden by:
      Orange County Liberal

      You can't help it.

      As an American you don't know anything else.

      But you owe it to the people who will suffer if Obama loses to support him.

      You may not think there's anything worth fighting for if Obama supports Appendix M, but that's just because you have a comfy nerf life here in America and your sense of morality doesn't go beyond what makes you feel good about yourself.

      Ask 100 powerless people overseas if they think it's "over" if Obama doesn't repeal appendix M. Ask them if they think liberals should abandon Obama because of it.

      They'd look at you like you were a spoiled selfish fat little American brat.

      And they'd be right.

      •  You've shot out a whole bunch of (0+ / 0-)

        You're irresponsible

        Americans still have the luxury of worrying more about who won American Idol.

        So selfish. So selfish

        a spoiled selfish fat little American brat.

        "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do." John Wooden

        by CKendall on Mon Feb 01, 2010 at 12:56:34 AM PST

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      •  How the hell (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Orange County Liberal

        do you know what kind of life anyone you are commenting to lives?  I'm sorry if you don't understand the laws and rules of this country, but perhaps you could do a bit more reading.

        The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

        by TracieLynn on Mon Feb 01, 2010 at 06:02:38 AM PST

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        •  If you live in America, your life is soft (0+ / 0-)

          compared to most people on the planet.

          That's just a fact.

          If you can afford to sit around on your butt and blog, your life is soft compared to most people on this planet who need Americans to be voting for Obama.

          More than half the people on this planet don't have access to the basic services Americans like you take for granted.

          •  And, (0+ / 0-)

            the reason so many of us have it relatively better than many others is because of our system of government, our Constitution.  It hurts our cause when people like you are so quick to throw that away.

            And, you can try and sound self-righteous all you want, but your way helps only those currently in power, user id 232224.  I'm a bit suspicious of your motives.

            The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

            by TracieLynn on Mon Feb 01, 2010 at 11:27:06 AM PST

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            •  Nobody's throwing away anything. (0+ / 0-)

              But the reality is that the powerless don't care about your American principles or even your law.

              They care about whether you're doing what you should be to make sure the least insane American is living in the White House.

              Go overseas and tell the Haitians you're not going to vote for Obama because of the things in Appendix M and they'd look at you like you were a spoiled brat. They'd look at you like you were crazy.

              The reality is that you're the one being self-righteous, because you think your idealism about America's form of government is more important than real living breathing human beings.

              Ask people overseas if they think indefinite isolation, limiting sleep to 4 hours a  night, and stress positions is a reasonable issue to base your withholding of support of Obama on.

              Again, they'd look at you like you were a spoiled fat little American with a cozy nerf life who has the luxury to make such decisions from the comfort of their living room while they blog about it.

    •  what do think has been going on in US prisons (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lightfoot, joedemocrat, obama2012

      since the Civil War??

      slave labor dangerous restraints exposure to extremes of heat/cold sensorary deprivation sexual assauly beatings chemical sprays tasers beatings use of dogs 23 hour a day lockdown - Herman Wallace for 37+years!- botched executions

      Abu Ghraib to the 10000 power

      Of course we are opposed to torture -- I am also opposed to torture right here right in the USA..

      This outrage over the Bush/Cheney torture program represents outrage over the a tiny percentage of the torture that occurs to 2.4 million US citizens DAILY....

      When i see the SAME level of discontent and political action over TORTURE on our soil then I willl take seriously the purists who cannot vote for any US policitian who supports this

      Don't lay this on Obama...

      You all have been voting for this every time you cast a ballot...

      "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

      by soothsayer99 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 at 11:12:29 PM PST

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      •  So it all just cancels each other out? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn

        I don't understand what your point is.

        It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

        by Grassee on Mon Feb 01, 2010 at 05:44:36 AM PST

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        •  Of course not --my point is this.... (3+ / 0-)

          When i see the SAME level of discontent and political action over TORTURE on our soil then I willl take seriously the purists who cannot vote for any US policitian who supports this

          The attention and passion associated with Guantanamo Bay should also apply to Pelican Bay...

          The US has the highest incaceration rae in he world -- where is the outrage over that?

           title=

          Torture begins at home --it needs to end here as well...

          I would love to see the energy and passion attatched to a prosecution of Bush/Cheney (which willnot happen here --regardless of who POTUS) to  forward -looking effort to end the prison industrial complex in the US

          we all can start here

          National Criminal Justice Commission Act of 2009

          "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

          by soothsayer99 on Mon Feb 01, 2010 at 07:05:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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