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View Diary: Jane Hamsher & the Big Jerk-Around (277 comments)

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  •  Tom, I do not have an enemies list. (1+ / 0-)
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    Perhaps my prose when I am angry suffers. I am not attacking "the left", I do have issues with some self-identified progressives who can only attack and have been doing so for months. I do not know how one should respond to their negativity and cynicism. You suggest that I ignore them, but I do not see how that works. Extremes on the left seek an imagined purity paired with a commitment to an inflexible set of tactics. When it looked like they would not get what they wanted, they formed common cause with wing-nuts to kill HCR. It looks like this tactic may be working and I expect that on Wednesday they will double their efforts to kill HCR and increase the attacks on the President,  Democrats in Congress and any effort to pass legislation. I expect that these attacks will just increase their frequency and in their embracing right-wing talking points.

    Perhaps I am wrong about this, but you attack me for being concerned about it as if this is not a problem worth worrying about at all.

    Should one be silent about this? Should we just let this angry left/right alliance grow. Do you think something good will come from this? I do not see how anything positive can come from this endless circle of attack.

    My prose may be sloppy, but I'm advocating for calling it off, but if the FDLs of the world are increasing their attacks pointing the existence of these attacks is not firing back in a circular firing squad (IMHO). It is just pointing out the madness of the situation.

    When I see people embrace wing-nut memes--memes that I've been fighting all my life--as some kind of clever progressive tactic, I find it hard to not point out that this is a very bad idea.

    You attack me without evidence. (Like just who are "my pals" that I've been working with to destroy things and what did I do?) I am left wondering just what the hell you are talking about.

    I am angry to see such a great chance for progress slip through our collective fingers because we do not know how to work together. If you and I can figure this out, perhaps the rest of us can as well. Perhaps you could explain what one should do about this situation. I am frustrated. I guess you are as well.

    My apologies for my frustration and anger. You are my ally and not a foe. We should learn how to sort this out.

    If we are to seize this moment we have to learn how to focus and work together. I will listen if you will explain.

    Be well and cheers

    Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

    by dengre on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:12:25 PM PST

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    •  "the FDLs of the world." sigh. (0+ / 0-)

      this rhetoric is a problem.

      facebook pals - disclose!

      by jj24 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 11:20:24 PM PST

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      •  I ask how one should discuss this (1+ / 0-)
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        Is mentioning FDL is off-limits? Is the path they choose and the tactics they embrace beyond reproach?

        I think they are divisive and on the attack. I think this endless attacking is hurting a progressive agenda and using the language of the conservative movement way too often in those attacks. I think it is a problem. If I am wrong, please let me know why what I see as endless attacks are not actually attacks. Please let me know how these tactics are useful for a progressive agenda.

        I think we need to re-learn how to unify, but if one can not even criticize the tactic of progressives using conservative talking points to attack Democrats, then I do not know where to begin a conversation towards unity.

        The management of FDL has embraced the tactic of using conservative talking points to attack Democrats. While they are not the only ones to do this, they are the ones who took this tactic to the extreme of embracing Grover Norquist. I've used the term "FDL" as shorthand for those who embrace conservative talking points to attack Democrats. I can see how that could be misread as not everybody connected to FDL has been embracing this destructive tactic (and I think it is a destructive tactic, if I'm wrong, please let me know why I am wrong and why embracing this tactic is a good thing).

        I think there are many ways to criticize the President and Democrats in Congress and that there are many things they should be criticized for doing or not doing. I just do not think progressives should embrace, use and validate conservative talking points, memes, groups and rhetoric to make these criticisms. That tactic is the source of my problem with FDL and anybody else using it. If my prose is not conveying a focus on criticizing a tactic over individuals then I must apologize for that sloppiness.

        I am trying to separate issues and feelings that have become tangled. I am trying to think this through. I see this tactic as a problem and I think it should be called out as a bad idea. Jane over at FDL has become a champion of this tactic as a smart progressive tactic and strategy for change. I think she is wrong here and I am dismayed that that any criticism of this tactic has become off-limits.

        I am trying to understand this mess. I would like the circular firing squad to be dismantled, but if even discussing that this is happening is wrong then I'm not sure what we should do next.

        Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

        by dengre on Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 04:27:40 AM PST

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