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View Diary: Armando's Challenge, Or The Informed Citizen's Guide To The 2004 Election (389 comments)

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  •  If we let this incredibly well documented (4.00)
    case of election rigging go unprotested, it will set a very dangerous precedent.

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 05:49:03 PM PST

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    •  I agree, but... (none)
      the comments from DelDem et al are the exact reason I posted by "why the challenge is bull and not" diary yesterday...

      It's just too late now to change minds and generate action.

      I appreciate the detail Georgia10 put into the doc and look forward to spending the rest of my night reading it... ;)

      Jaded Reality... I've had enough spin for today thanks...

      by spiderleaf on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 05:54:59 PM PST

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      •  Why do you say it's too late--we're (none)
        talking about politicians here--the type of vocation where minds often need to change as fast as the wind changes direction.  

        That which is politically advantageous--such as a heroic action that is so well substantiated--is the type of posterity  future history books will rave.

        Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

        by Einsteinia on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:01:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  because politicians only respond (none)
          to volume. they only make a move when the support is guaranteed and they will not suffer too many inconvienences from it.

          and because this has not been given the legitimacy of the front page and incidents reported on, the groundswell of support we need (outside of people who are already invested in the process) is not there.... and with 3 days to certification and comments like Del Dem's still occuring, we just don't have enough time.

          Really and truly sad. And I hope to whatever power there is that I'm wrong...

          Jaded Reality... I've had enough spin for today thanks...

          by spiderleaf on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:04:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hmmmmm, well (none)
            without ANY help from the media the Barbara Boxer petition alone has, at last viewing, gathered nearly 30,000 signatures.  See http://www.contestthevote.org

            Also, Moveon.org has gathered over 400,000 signatures to investigate the vote

            When you compare this event to Watergate--a scandal that didn't have anywhere near the amount of evidence we have for this VoterGate scandal--AND

            When you compare this event to what brought down Clinton,

            I have to wonder what would it take to get someone to do the right thing around here.

            Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

            by Einsteinia on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:11:38 PM PST

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            •  I agree (4.00)
              that's why I called out the frontpagers yesterday. My point was, this is a news story with at least as much 'evidence' and information as the WA recount, but relative silence on the frontpage.

              I don't see our problem as getting the certified results challenged, I think it is convincing citizens like Del Dem that there is a serious problem that needs to be investigated now, not 2 or 4 years from now when the Democrats lose even more seats and the Repubs get more sophisticated at voter suppression...

              and for that we actually need exposure... hence why I was adament the frontpage was important, no crucial.

              Jaded Reality... I've had enough spin for today thanks...

              by spiderleaf on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:16:17 PM PST

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        •  Too late (none)
          is the lazy way out!  

          It's election reform, stupid!

          by TXsharon on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:23:03 PM PST

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          •  to call my diary yesterday lazy (none)
            is really not cool. I have an opinion on why the exposure was necessary all along and why I fear that it is too late now.

            I have put an enormous amount of energy recently into the OH election and really truly hope I am wrong.

            Jaded Reality... I've had enough spin for today thanks...

            by spiderleaf on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:30:28 PM PST

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            •  Not you. Not your diary. (none)
              Just the general comment that it's too late, which is a stance that many had from the very beginning.  Not putting forth the effort to investigate or work toward a resolution early on was lazy on the part of many Americans.

              The lazy comment was not directed toward you--just the general lazy electorate.

              It's election reform, stupid!

              by TXsharon on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 06:22:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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