Skip to main content

View Diary: The 2010 Comprehensive Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll of Self-Identified Republicans (720 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  There is only one way to change these views (9+ / 0-)

    IMPLEMENT GOOD POLICIES...

    Period.

    You will not change anyone's mind through rhetoric. Period.

    See Social Security, Medicare as prime examples.

    I am not against all health care reform, I am just against dumb health care reform!

    by justmy2 on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 09:50:43 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You are 100% wrong. Policy means nothing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomFromNJ, Haplogroup V, Korinthios

      when it come to public opinion. In any case, you have to have power to enact policies, and you get power by influencing public opinion through marketing and message dominance. Do you really imagine that the morons responding to this poll (and the other morons who didn't) have any idea what policies are in place, or how they are affected by them? They don't, and never will. People are idiots, and the only way to political power in a democracy is through better marketing and relentless attacks on the opponent's message.

      •  100% nonsense (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        offgrid, Indieman, Korinthios

        ...or did you miss all the elderly McCain voters at town hall meetings, simultaneously protesting the public option as a "government takeover" while also demanding that the government keep it's hands of Medicare?

        I'm a part of the reality-based community, not the personality-based community.

        by Uberbah on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 10:30:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes....I do... (5+ / 0-)

        Do you really imagine that the morons responding to this poll (and the other morons who didn't) have any idea what policies are in place, or how they are affected by them?

        If you think the tax breaks implemented by Reagan, and the torture policies implemented by Bush, the environmental regulations and policies implemented by Bush, have not influenced the modern day conservative, I think you are seriously underestimating how policy creates perception.

        Medicare was demonized when it passed.  Do you think anyone's mind's would have been changed through speeches?  It was only after people saw the legislation in action did they move.

        Conservative have almost every communication channel under their ownership.  There is very little messaging that will influence these people.  Conservatives have to see something in action before even begin to reconsider.

        I am not against all health care reform, I am just against dumb health care reform!

        by justmy2 on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:37:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The opinions of "conservatives" don't matter. (0+ / 0-)

          You're never going to change these people's minds. They're assholes. The point is to keep them from power. You do that by convincing independent voters that conservatives are assholes. Which ought to be easy, since they ARE assholes.

    •  Social Security was sellout legislation (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Korinthios

      mangled beyond all recognition by conservative Democrats.

      We should've smothered that POS sellout bill when we had the chance so that we could've passed something better.

      True change only comes from broad, revolutionary strokes, not this incremental change bullshit. What did that ever accomplish?

      To arms, comrades! We must defeat Obamacare while we can!

      •  your analogy sucks, as usual (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, George Hier

        Comparing current efforts at health care "reform" to Social Security is laughable.  Your comparison might be remotely relevant if Social Security was a mandated system of 401k plans with astronomical fees sent to the banks, or if current legislation had a strong public option.

        But of course that's not the case, so your analogy is utterly irrelevant.

        I'm a part of the reality-based community, not the personality-based community.

        by Uberbah on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 10:34:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All I know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Korinthios

          is that that corporate sellout FDR created a retirement security program that only covers the rich white men who got us into this mess in the first place.

          Social Security Insurance is nothing more than a wealth transfer program to the most well-off Americans.

          •  all you know and say is BS, straight up (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            George Hier

            No amount of spin is going to change the fact that Social Security was a government-run program, or that current HCR is going to embrace and extend the bloodsucking insurance industry.

            I'm a part of the reality-based community, not the personality-based community.

            by Uberbah on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 11:06:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  How could that be, when there are so many (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            George Hier, Indieman, flitedocnm

            poor people whose only income is Social Security?  Lower-income people get a higher percentage of their pre-retirement income than higher-income people do.  

            I hope your comment was snark, because if you meant it seriously, you are just plain wrong.  

            Renewable energy brings national security.

            by Calamity Jean on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 11:27:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Partially snark, partially true (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Indieman, Korinthios

              When Social Security was first enacted, it hardly covered anyone - pretty much left out blacks, women, blue collar workers, farmers, health care workers and so on. It got watered down in committee by conservative Democrats. Progressive groups threw a fit. Minority groups were angry.

              Sound familiar?

              However, year after year, it expanded and grew and became the system we all know and love today. It certainly didn't spring out the New Deal fully formed - it was incremental progress. Ditto for Medicare.

              The basic point is that the Senate bill, as less than ideal as it is, is an even bigger step forward than the original SSI bill was. It's a first step forward that'll make subsequent steps in later years significantly easier because it sets the incredible precedent that it's in the government's interest to ensure access to health care for all Americans.

              Too many progressives have lost historical perspective in their intense desire to punish the other side.

              •  Not exactly. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JeffW

                When Social Security was first enacted, it hardly covered anyone - pretty much left out blacks, women, blue collar workers, farmers, health care workers and so on.

                Government employees and railroad employees were left out of Social Security as first enacted because they were already covered by retirement plans that were better than Social Security was at the time.  

                Self-employed people, domestic employees and agricultural employees were left out IMHO partly because the paperwork to get the taxes collected from them would have been a pain in the rump.  Even today a lot of household and farm workers don't have their taxes properly collected; compliance would have been an even bigger problem in 1937.  Don't forget income tax withholding didn't exist then.  

                Women employees, blue collar workers and health care employees were NOT exempt from Social Security as originally created; neither were non-farm, non-domestic black workers.   In fact blue collar workers were intended to be the main population to benefit from the program.  

                You are absolutely right about Social Security expanding; many more groups of workers and types of benefits have been added, especially in it's first 20 years.  Too many Republicans still hate it, though.

                Renewable energy brings national security.

                by Calamity Jean on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 11:16:39 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  created a retirement security program (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            George Hier

            And what is being created now?

            You hit on the key difference. Something was created to build upon.  The current legislation creates nothing, it modifies an already weak system for health care delivery.

            Yes, it will help some people. But to compare it to the massive change introduced by Social Security is a stretch to put it mildly.

            I am not against all health care reform, I am just against dumb health care reform!

            by justmy2 on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:40:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Policy must be understood by the audience, first. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Indieman, flitedocnm

      I wish you were right, but I submit it's difficult to impress policy arguments upon people who fiercely defend their right to remain ignorant.  Take a look at the comments on the Fox News website or Townhall.com sometime.  These people are not the rational kind.

      •  I didn't say argue policy points... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Indieman

        I said IMPLEMENT them.  

        I agree with your point 100%.  We are beyond the point of rationale arguments.  And Democrats problem is they continue to try to win over people before taking action.  If they believe in their principles, they need to move on them while they have the chance.

        Good Policy is Good Politics.

        I am not against all health care reform, I am just against dumb health care reform!

        by justmy2 on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:42:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site