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View Diary: What Democratic leadership failure looks like (337 comments)

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  •  Here's my point (2+ / 0-)
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    maxschell, NThenUDie

    The most evil so and so in our party voted for reform.  Yes he got a sweetheart deal for the what 800,000 people of Nebraska, yes he is an anti choice zealot, but yet and still he voted yes.  NOT ONE REPUBLICAN DID.  That is our enemy.  Those are the people whose ideology support and ideas are in diametrically opposed position to ours.  Maybe when the other side is not batshit crazy we might turn our attention to some of the philosophies of our further right members, but now isnt the time, and neither was 6 months ago.

    My leader is Barack Hussein Obama the finest President this country has ever elected.

    by Adept2u on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:15:23 AM PST

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    •  Well we agree that the Republicans are.. (0+ / 0-)

      ...batshit crazy.

      Where we disagree is whether enriching the Republicans and their donors through the Senate HCR bill is the best way of ensuring they do not ever get control of this country again.

      This also goes for AfPak and Iraq and other PermaWar nonsense.

      If our leadership continues to funnel money to our enemies, who we agree are batshit crazy, and legislate policies and make decisions that benefit them over the public good, how can we expect to change this country?

      Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

      by maxschell on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:24:09 AM PST

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      •  I completely disagree with this meme (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OIL GUY

        enriching the Republicans and their donors through the Senate HCR bill

        I would very much like for someone to prove that the Senate bill will enrich Republicans and their donors.

        My leader is Barack Hussein Obama the finest President this country has ever elected.

        by Adept2u on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:26:07 AM PST

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        •  Private insurers get 30 million+ more customers (3+ / 0-)

          "Private" insurance means for profit.  These private insurance companies donate primarily to Republicans...and faux-Democrats like Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman.

          Ergo, giving the private insurers 30 million more customers, on whom they will make a profit, will mean more money will go from the private insurers to the Republicans, thereby enriching our enemies.

          Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

          by maxschell on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:32:01 AM PST

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          •  a basic misunderstanding is happening (1+ / 0-)
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            maxschell

            People tend to think that customers equals profit to health insurers and thats not really the case.  For example Aetna is currently dropping 650K patients because although they are "profitable" they are not profitable enough.  Taking on 30 million new customers also means taking on 30 million new potential claims and in that group of 30 million we already know contains alot of sick and needy people, it just isnt the WIN people think it is for insurance companies.

            Mandates are essential if we are to cover everybody not because it will be some boon to insurance companies, but because the system has to protect itself against those who would only use it when needed.

            My leader is Barack Hussein Obama the finest President this country has ever elected.

            by Adept2u on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:36:36 AM PST

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            •  I agree there are other factors... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wsexson, Uberbah, Adept2u, MixedContent

              ...that affect a private insurers profit.

              Interestingly, the largest factor, other than new customers, is the performance of the stock market or other investments.

              This is because private insurers make a bet.  They bet that they can make more money over a person's lifetime investing a person's premiums than that person's healthcare will cost them.

              It's really that simple.

              This is why private insurers fight tooth and nail when payment is requested.  They employ legions of lawyers to make sure payments are delayed.  That's because the longer they delay payment, the longer they have to make more money on your premium.

              This is of course a losing game.  Which is born out by the fact that healthcare premiums and thus healthcare costs are so high.  The private insurers can't win in the stock market, so they must raise premiums on their insured.

              It is certainly nothing on which we should be basing fundamental "reform".  Perpetuating this system is a bigtime lose for our country.  

              Insurers will get an enormous injection of cash, which they will use to buy influence at the federal and state level where rule-making about the rates they can charge will be implemented.

              It will be a massively-corrupted clusterfuck with horrific consequences for our people and our children over the next 20-50 years.

              Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

              by maxschell on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 10:55:27 AM PST

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          •  Many of these thirty million patients (0+ / 0-)

            will be folks the insurance companies previously refused to cover, or had dropped when the insurer started losing too much money on them.

            This isn't any great victory for the health insurance industry.

            God has no religion. - Gandhi

            by OIL GUY on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 11:03:26 AM PST

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    •  But the slow walked it so it would not pass - (2+ / 0-)
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      maxschell, 3goldens

      Baucus allowing things to go on through the teabagger summer, and the end bill being a major burden to labor the middle class, plus there were no cost controls with the mandates. People on the street realized that was a big problem - hence in part Ma.

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