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View Diary: Today's "don't ask, don't tell" hearing (255 comments)

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  •  Gates said he'd need to review whether that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grannyhelen

    could be done---a moratorium that is.

    I didn't like that hedge.

    •  I think if enough folks called Levin (5+ / 0-)

      and supported the moratorium, that might help.

      It was pretty clear in the committee that DADT is going the way of the dodo sooner or later - let's hope there's some momentum building.

      Or, we could build it ourselves.

      It actually makes sense to enact a moratorium if you're "studying" the issue and you're trying to get input from currently serving gay members of the military - how else are they going to feel like they can speak out, and how else will you be able to receive their input?

      "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

      by grannyhelen on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:03:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just repeal it, skip the moratorium (nt) (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        homogenius, militaryvoter, Nax

        "So it was OK to waterboard a guy over 80 times but God forbid the guy who could understand what that prick was saying has a boyfriend."--Jon Stewart

        by craigkg on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:15:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's a real problem here. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          craigkg, ultraviolet uk
          1. We don't know the precise language and when the repeal would take effect.
          1. The Pentagon needs to write new regs and train Officers, NCOs and enlisted.
          1. You are correct--repealing DADT is the most important thing. However, assuming it doesn't take effect until next year, every separation between now and then is an injustice and worth fighting.

          If we can persuade Obama/Gates to suspend separations, that would be worth doing. I have my doubts. I'd like to at least see them suspend as soon as the repeal is signed.

          As I've said elsewhere, I suspect once the repeal is passed and signed DADT will become moot and most Commanders will start to ignore it. But my fear is some homophobes will increase their anti-gay activities. I hope I'm wrong.

          "Jane, you ignorant slut." --Dan Aykroyd, Saturday Night Live

          by homogenius on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 02:43:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I meant Congress should skip moratorium (0+ / 0-)

            Obama should have issued a stop loss order on DADT in January of 2009 and we ought to keep the pressure on for him to issue that order while their 1 year delay tactic plays out.

            "So it was OK to waterboard a guy over 80 times but God forbid the guy who could understand what that prick was saying has a boyfriend."--Jon Stewart

            by craigkg on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 02:50:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's not a fucking delay tactic! (0+ / 0-)

              Jesustittyfuckingchrist!

              Look, if we succeed and get this passed in the Defense Appropriations Bill, when do you think it will take effect? Until and unless I hear otherwise, I'll assume it would be next fiscal year. It could be set for even later, you know.

              There's no delay tactic. That's bullshit. We WANT the Pentagon to study implementation. They've already been quietly consulting our allies on what to expect.

              One more time: the Pentagon study has NOTHING to do with repealing DADT. This is great news--Gates announced to congress that the Pentagon is not going to wait on the actual passage of the repeal to start planning implementation.

              The big question that remains AFAIC is what the bill actually says about when it takes effect.

              "Jane, you ignorant slut." --Dan Aykroyd, Saturday Night Live

              by homogenius on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 03:05:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It is a delay tactic (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                craigkg

                when you consider that Secretary Gates made a statement last summer saying that DOD was studying the issue.  Today, he testifies that they haven't really even begun to study the issue.  But they're sure going to get serious about studying the issue now!  Maybe they'll be done in time for Republicans to take over Congress and they can put the binder with the study back on the shelf.

                •  If you can't see the difference... (0+ / 0-)

                  I can't help you. I don't think it's worth arguing with everyone running around with their fingers in their ears.

                  What went on last year was on the QT--it's what led up to today's testimony. The Pentagon was quietly consulting with our allies to understand their experiences. Now they need to plan the implementation AND, frankly, get some conservative brass on board with the change before they go down the line.

                  "Jane, you ignorant slut." --Dan Aykroyd, Saturday Night Live

                  by homogenius on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 03:15:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It certainly is a delay tactic (0+ / 0-)

                We were told last year they were studying this and now we see they weren't. Mullen was very ill prepared to answer Sen. McCaskill's question about just how they intended to get the input of GLBT servicemembers when those members aren't allowed to discuss their sexual orientation. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN WORKING ON THIS at least not in any substantial fashion. Even if they were, this is not something that takes two years to study, especially in light of the dozen of more studies on gays in the military already done dating back over 50 years. Even in 1994, this would have been ridiculous.

                This is a "Get this the hell off the agenda till after the midterms" stall tactic. The administration delayed Congress even taking up DADT till early this year and then once they couldn't delay a hearing any longer they give us this crapola that they need a year to study it. It is obvious that Obama is a pussy ass wimp that isn't going to do a damn thing unless Congress shoves it down his throat, otherwise we'd have seen a stop loss order today while the "study" is conducted.

                If Gates and Mullen can't be prepared for a DADT repeal this summer after knowing since the day Obama won the fucking election that this was going to happen, they are incompetent and guilty of dereliction of duty.

                Even today we heard hints of this segregation crap they've been mentioning which is especially pernicious in light of the fact gays have been serving along side straights for as long at the military has existed.

                I'm reminded of a conversation some friends and I had with the father of an acquaintance on mine in 1994 when DADT was being implemented. He was a either a sergeant major or master sergeant, I don't remember which, but in a non-commissioned command of troops and a former drill sergeant. When asked about his thoughts on gays in the military, he answered to this group of college students with three questions of his own. First he asked if there are rules against fraternization between ranks, hazing and other abuses of command. We responded yes. He then asked if there were rules against sexual harassment against others regardless of rank in the military. Again we responded yes. Then finally he asked if those rules against those offenses would or should be applied evenly regardless of the sexes involved. We responded they should. He then replied "Then there shouldn't be any f*$%ing problem then should there?"

                This is not as difficult as it is being made out to be, certainly not to the extent they are claiming, especially in light of the experience we can lean on from the UK and Canada, nations with whom we share a common history and military command structure.

                "So it was OK to waterboard a guy over 80 times but God forbid the guy who could understand what that prick was saying has a boyfriend."--Jon Stewart

                by craigkg on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 04:12:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Levin wants to pass one through Congress. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannyhelen, ultraviolet uk

      I think that may well be possible as Collins appears to be on-board with ending DADT.

      God has no religion. - Gandhi

      by OIL GUY on Tue Feb 02, 2010 at 01:09:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOL - Gates needs to review whether or not (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catnip, vacantlook, nokkonwud

      he could put a moratorium in place?  It's like these guys were presented this question this very morning!  "Oh, we have to do a study."  "We don't have a clue what we can do about it."  What a crock.

    •  Lord, everything has to be "reviewed". (0+ / 0-)

      Hearing it so much really does come off as can-kicking.

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