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View Diary: 123 civilians, 3 al Qaeda DRONED in January, 17 more dead today (111 comments)

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  •  So... (1+ / 0-)
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    fairleft2

    do you think that might have had something to do with it?

    •  why did they set the bombs so close to school (0+ / 0-)

      they didn't have to do that.

      And the Taliban has a history of targeting schools.

      Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

      by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 01:43:07 PM PST

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      •  Indeed (0+ / 0-)

        But you pretended bafflement as to how that could constitute retaliation for the US drone attacks.  However, the fact that they killed 3 US soldiers rather explains that point, no?

        •  I am baffled by why they target their own people (0+ / 0-)

          you never answered it.  If their aim was to target US soldiers they could have done that not within school proximity.  So I am baffled by why they would set it up that way.  A lot more school girls were harmed than soldiers.

          Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

          by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 01:48:24 PM PST

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            •  I'm pretty sure they're human (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              allenjo

              but I don't understand what they're doing.  They're trying to terrorize and suppress the population as much as anyone else for power.  

              Maybe some are ideologues?  Who truly despise education for women?  

              I donno, I'm really asking for your thoughts on the matter.

              Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

              by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 01:59:21 PM PST

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              •  Isn't this what the USA is doing? (0+ / 0-)

                terrorize and suppress the population as much as anyone else for power.

                 

                "We are tired of war," he said. "We don't want it anymore."

                by allenjo on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:07:39 PM PST

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                •  Agreed mostly, but recently there have been (0+ / 0-)

                  talks about Taliban cooperation and how they're good for the region, but they're just as bad as everyone else.  I'm not sure how they're protecting anyone, they're not just being freedom fighters.

                  Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

                  by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:10:55 PM PST

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              •  Reasons? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fairleft2

                The reasons are various.  The key ones to my mind are:

                1. Simple conservatism and tribalism: they see female education as destroying the old ways and drawing people into a new system.
                1. Proof of their power: proof that no changes can be made to society with their say-so.
                1. Destroying American influence: schools and public works are a way of building support.  By destroying them, they prevent the US from gaining a foothold (and leave themselves as the only party that can provide community service)
                1. Killing Americans (as was done today) and they sympathizers, and warning others against working with Americans (a shorter version of this might be "terror").  
                •  But they aren't building support (0+ / 0-)

                  with this method.  There are many mixed reports of whether areas are pro or anti - Taliban.  

                  However, they are causing as many citizen deaths as anyone else.  

                  You would think it would be completely counter-productive, especially to specifically target their neighbors children.

                  I can see the working with Americans angle, but not all the schools targeted are built with the support of Americans.  

                  And female education hasn't always been seen as a bad thing in the area.  

                  Is this the fate of this country, to leave the US war behind only to be handed over to people who still terrorize them?

                  Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

                  by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:17:22 PM PST

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                  •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fairleft2

                    It certainly does cost them some support.  But I imagine there are a number of conservatives in the region greatly afraid of change, and this builds support with them.

                    It's a complex calculus.  Some may love the Taliban.  Some may simply fear them.  Some may simply hate outsiders who only show up to drop bombs in the name of righteousness.  

                    Historically, it's not uncommon for a resistance movement to destroy the structures of the occupying power, even if those structures are beneficial.

                    •  Agree with all that (0+ / 0-)

                      but it's not only US built structures that they attack.  It seems to be somewhat of a tearing down of any culture to replace it with their own to gain more power.  Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but from an outsiders perspective, that's what it seems like.

                      Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

                      by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:54:09 PM PST

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              •  Who cares, but here are three possibilities: (0+ / 0-)

                The Taliban places a low value on civilian lives because

                1. they think it's necessary (pretty stupid to stand out in an open field and say, 'fight me here, America, where there are no civilians around')

                and/or

                1. avoiding civilian collateral damage has less importance than accomplishing the 'great' goals of expelling the U.S. and establishing an extremely conservative Islamic regime.

                and/or

                1. scaring civilians away from cooperating with the neocolonial power is one of the Taliban's goals.
                •  Here's the reason I care (0+ / 0-)

                  because there are talks about negotiating with the Taliban.  While I agree we need to get out and we are not avoiding civilians nearly enough, I'm worried about who the country will be handed over to.  I don't think that 1 and 2 are the reason because too often civilians are attacked without targeting any soldiers or anything constructed with funds.  

                  3 is what I think is most likely but also it serves to suppress the population and force them to conform to 'Taliban standards'  

                  Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

                  by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:28:24 PM PST

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                  •  You're sure it's 3? Why didn't you just say so? (0+ / 0-)

                    No one has any illusions that the Taliban are nice guys. But no one has any illusions that the war against them is a failure. If negotiations led to peace (PEACE!) and a coalition government in which the Taliban compromised on some of its worst positions, and most Afghans supported that compromise, it would be grossly morally wrong for the U.S. to stand in the way of that. But that is exactly what U.S. Dem/Repub policy is right now. We have an extreme policy against any and all negotiations with the Taliban leadership, I guess because the military-industrial complex thrives on permanent war and AfPak is the ongoing war right now.

          •  Again (0+ / 0-)

            It's well known that they target girls schools for a variety of reasons, all of them vicous.  However, that does not explain why you pretend not to understand how they could blow up US troops.  

            •  Hmmm...this convo isn't going anywhere (0+ / 0-)

              From my original statement

              I'm at a loss why they're attacking they're own people

              The schoolgirls are not collateral damage if they could have easily not placed the bombs near the school and still targeted troops, if that in fact is their goal.  

              So why target their own population?  

              Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary. ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

              by bvig on Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 02:03:56 PM PST

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