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View Diary: Picking a fight (267 comments)

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  •  Like we need to shout about the 7 Senators (7+ / 0-)

    who voted against the same bill the Co-Sponsored!! Unreal!  Thanks for all you do.

    •  What's particularly interesting... (20+ / 0-)

      ...is that there's no hiding from this bill. Republicans who claim they're for using market competition? No hiding. Democrats who claim the same thing? No hiding.

      This will be a really really useful litmus test.

      •  Please reconsider your support of 'insurance' (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chi, willibro

        bailout that many will not be able to afford.

        Single payer is the only way to solve these problems - the mandatory insurance approach legitimizes a system that is killing lots of people.

        How can you justify preserving gag clauses!

        And job lock!

        •  Look, Andiamo (16+ / 0-)

          Given my druthers and a magic wand, I'd gladly give every American access to Medicare or something a lot like it.

          I have yet to see a political strategy articulated that gets us there.

          Please do talk about single payer. Please do point out that it's a superior solution to the problems we face. And especially do so in public-facing ways, so that the public hears the message.

          However, beating up your allies because they're near at hand and you're frustrated is counterproductive.

          •  He gave you permission! Do it! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Chi, RebeccaG

            Why not just come out and make the case articulately..

            In a public forum, BECAUSE ITS THE TRUTH.

            Isn't that what Obama asked you to do during his SOTU?

            President Barack Obama
            The White House
            January 27, 2010

            But if anyone from either party has a better approach that will bring down premiums, bring down the deficit, cover the uninsured, strengthen Medicare for seniors, and stop insurance company abuses, let me know.  (Applause.)  Let me know.  Let me know.  (Applause.)  I’m eager to see it.

            JUST DO IT!

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/...

        •  They could scrap the mandate and... (0+ / 0-)

          Go for a combo strategy of ending anti-trust examptions and expand medicare through reconcilliation. Everyone's happy, for now. Thinking longer term this exposes free market strategy as ineffectual and gives our argument for government system a boost.

          Single payer is a LONG way off no matter what we wish. We need to think long term strategy on this IMHO.

          The world is my country, science is my religion.

          by ReadyForChange on Sat Feb 06, 2010 at 04:58:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The long way off may be sooner than you think (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Chi

            because it is the only way that works. Democrats are dreaming if they think Americans will accept a four year wait. Four years and the Dems could be like the Whigs. Do you know anything about single payer? I don't think you would say the things you do if you did. For one thing, two thirds of Americans support it or something like it ALREADY..

               Table 1: Polls indicating majority support for single-payer

               .....................................................................For single-payer........Opposed to single-payer

               General public: Polls in which support is 60 percent or higher

               Harvard University/Harris (1988)(a)........................61%..............not asked
               LA Times (1990)(b)....................................................66%.............not asked
               Wall Street Journal-NBC (1991)(c)............................69%................20%
               Wash Post-ABC News (2003)(d)................................62%.............not asked
               Civil Society Institute (2004)(e).................................67%.................27%
               AP-Yahoo (2007)(f).....................................................65%..............not asked
               Grove Insight (2009)(g).............................................64%.................28%
               Grove Insight (2009)(g).............................................60%.................27%

               General public: Polls in which support is below 60 percent

               AP-Yahoo (2007)(f).....................................................54%...................44%
               Kaiser Family Foundation (2009)(h)..........................58%...................38%
               Kaiser Family Foundation (2009)(h)..........................50%...................44%

               Doctors

               New Eng J Med (medical school faculty and students) (1999)
               .....................................................................................57%...... ..........not asked
               Arch Int Med (doctors) (2004)....................................64%................not asked
               Minnesota Med (doctors) (2007).................................64%................not asked

               (a) The question asked by the Harvard University/Harris poll was described in the Health Affairs article reporting the results as follows: "The majority of Americans (61 percent) state they would prefer the Canadian system of national health insurance where ‘the government pays most of the cost of health care for everyone out of taxes and the government sets all fees charged by hospitals and doctors....’" An analogous question posed to Canadians found that only 3 percent of Canadians said they would prefer the American system.

               (b) The question asked by the Los Angeles Times poll was: "In the Canadian system of national health insurance, the government pays most of the cost of health care out of taxes and the government sets all fees charged by doctors and hospitals. Under the Canadian system – which costs the taxpayers less than the American system – people can choose their own doctors and hospitals. On balance, would you prefer the Canadian system or the system we have here in the United States?" Sixty-six percent chose the Canadian system and 25 percent chose the US system.

               (c) The question asked by the Wall Street Journal-NBC poll was: "Do you favor or oppose the US having a universal government-paid health care system like they have in Canada?"

               (d) The Washington Post-ABC News poll asked: "Which would you prefer – (the current health insurance system in the United States, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance); or (a universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that’s run by the government and financed by taxpayers?)" Thirty-three percent preferred the current system while 62 percent preferred the "universal system."

               (e) The Civil Society poll asked: "Other major nations, such as Canada and England, guarantee their citizens health insurance on the job, through government programs, or via a nonprofit source. Would it be a good or bad idea for the United States to adopt the same approach to providing health care to everyone?"

               (f)The AP-Yahoo poll asked two questions. One asked respondents which of these two proposals they agreed with: (1) "The United States should adopt a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers" (65 percent chose this option); (2) "The United States should continue the current health insurance system in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance" (34 percent chose this option). The second question was: "Do you consider yourself a supporter of a single-payer health care system, that is a national health plan financed by taxpayers in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan, or not?" (54 percent said they were supporters of single-payer and 44 percent said they were opposed).

               (g) The Grove Insight poll asked two questions. One asked: "Federal leaders are considering expanding Medicare to all Americans, so that people have another option besides private health insurance or an HMO. Do you favor or oppose the creation of this type of public health plan option?" (64 percent said they favor this proposal). A very similar question was asked which differed from the first by including information on the financing mechanism: "There is proposed federal legislation that gives any American, regardless of age, the option of joining the Medicare program. Americans who choose this option would share the cost of the coverage with their employer through increased Medicare payroll deductions, instead of paying private health insurance premiums. Do you favor or oppose this legislation?" (60 percent favored it and 27 percent opposed it). Both questions, especially the second one, imply private insurers will continue to exist alongside a Medicare program open to all. But the questions are so similar to questions that clearly ask about Medicare-for-all systems that I decided to include them here.

               (h) The Kaiser Family Foundation poll asked: "Now I’m going to read you some different ways to increase the number of Americans covered by health insurance. As I read each one, please tell me whether you would favor it or oppose it.?" This was followed by eight proposals which, with the exception of the question about the "public option," were asked in a random order (the "option" question was always asked at the end). Two of these questions asked about single-payer. The first read: "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all." Fifty-eight percent said they favored this proposal while 38 percent said they opposed. The second read: "Having a national health plan – or single-payer plan – in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan." Only 50 percent favored this proposal while 44 percent opposed.

               For sources see Table 2 below.

            •  Um, yeah I know a lot about single payer (0+ / 0-)

              And I also know the Dems couldn't pass a public option - how are they going to get single payer without a larger majority in the Senate?

              The world is my country, science is my religion.

              by ReadyForChange on Sun Feb 07, 2010 at 08:07:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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