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View Diary: They don't want us to know. Silencing voices for Human Rights (140 comments)

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  •  no, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    canadian gal

    that is not what I meant, said, or implied. I simply pointed out that those he wished an "uncomfortable fate" on were Jews, members of the Israeli military. As those that those soldiers were preparing to visit an "uncomfortable fate" on were Palestinians.

    I am not comfortable with wishing an "uncomfortable fate" on anybody—Jews, Palestinians, soldiers, civilians, the man in the moon. It serves no purpose but to give another spin to the endless wheel of violence that all over this world threatens to reduce the planet to one big charnel house.

    If Tom had stopped when he said he hoped those soldiers would refuse to deploy, I would have applauded. He didn't, though. He had to give the wheel a spin.

    •  OK, but why mention the fact (5+ / 0-)
      that they were Jews, if not to imply that said Jewishness was a relevant factor in Tom's comment wishing them an uncomfortable fate? As I say, it's not even accurate, since not all members of the IDF are Jewish. You can simply say that Tom appeared to wish violence on IDF soldiers who were at that point in time participating in a massacre of civilians - no need to bring Jewishness into the equation. Just like if you expressed the wish that all the 9/11 hijackers be prosecuted, it would be misleading (though technically accurate) for me to represent that as you calling for the legal prosecution of Muslims.

      I'm not saying you intended to attribute antisemitic motives to Tom. I'm just saying that that is how your comment read given its highlighting of the Jewishness of the people to whom Tom was referring.

      More generally, like I say, it's generally better for everyone to address the substance rather than the poster.

      OK this is getting weird now - it's like we've switched roles. Look, I'm gonna go get in a stupid personal feud with someone, maybe call them a name or two, and then you can come and be the reasonable arbitrator urging calm and respect from both sides. Deal?

      •  does anyone think i wish (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        anything but failure to the US military in its efforts to subdue the people of Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan etc.?

        I do not wish them to be remain comfortable either. which is not to say that i wish violence to them, but i do wish pangs of conscience, regret, and remorse to anyone in any military that is part of a war of aggression. I hope, of course, that this leads to a great refusal among many in the military, a very real crisis, open rebellion in the military, such as the one that stopped the war against the people of Vietnam.

        Yes, i support an intifada.

        by Tom J on Sun Feb 07, 2010 at 01:10:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I mostly agree with this (3+ / 0-)
          with all this. I abhor violence, but I'm not a complete pacifist: there are occasions when the use of force is legitimate, and plainly if an army is systematically assaulting a society and massacring its people then those people have the right to resist, with violence if necessary.

          Again, plainly ideally violence would be avoided, but if a situation arises in which a violent conflict does break out between an aggressive occupying military power that is massacring a population and members of that population, then I have no hesitation in wishing the latter every success.

          That said, for you to call for or appear to call for violence against Israeli soldiers on a US-based online forum is basically gesture politics, and it is in my view entirely counterproductive since all it achieves is to alienate people who might otherwise be receptive (see, e.g., blueness).

      •  well, heath, (4+ / 0-)

        if you get addicted to American football, there's no telling what sort of bad habits you may pick up along the way. ; )

        Alright, alright, I'm sorry I pointed out that the IDF soldiers were Jewish. It caused the sort of trainwreck I disfavor when others are at the wheel. The only reason I came in here was because of the Israel/fascist/Zionist/Nazi mash-up in the diary. As you know, I tend to react, uh, strongly to that sort of thing. Whether it's the coy little game here, or when those folks were involved in their terrible smearing of jon.

        Now go enjoy your game. If in the course of it you happen to get embroiled in a "stupid personal feud with someone," shoot me an email, and I'll return the peacemaking favor. ; )

        Be well.

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