Skip to main content

View Diary: Scientists supporting Obama's NASA (103 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It comes down to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    palantir, Vladislaw

    changing NASA's culture, I agree.  That is vital.  I am optimistic that it can happen.  Mr. Matula is not.  Neither side can prove it, until we try it.  

    Bill, you often talk about the single point failures inherent in commercial spaceflight.  The problem is NASA spaceflight is full of single point failures.  And the culture of NASA is another one.  

    •  Therefore go around NASA, not through NASA (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      palantir, Vladislaw

      Don't bother trying to change NASA - it cannot be done - go around NASA.

      Governing well shall be the best revenge

      by Bill White on Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 04:03:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And we've had that discussion before (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        palantir

        Which results in me pointing out how the Augustine report argued that without NASA, it won't happen.  

        •  I deny that the Augustine report says what you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          palantir

          just now asserted.

          Governing well shall be the best revenge

          by Bill White on Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 04:07:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Class, please open your copy of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            palantir

            the Augustine Report to page 70

            The Committee engaged in a two-step process for assessing the potential financial benefit of commercial services for crew transport. This involved both estimating the cost to develop and operate the system, and then determining what fraction of this cost NASA would likely have to provide as an incentive to industry to enter into this venture.

            During its fact-finding process, the Committee received proprietary information from five different companies interested in the provision of commercial crew transportation services to low-Earth orbit. These included large and small companies, some of which have previously developed crew systems for NASA. The Committee also received input from prospective customers stating that there is a market for commercial crew transportation to low-Earth orbit for non-NASA purposes if the price is low enough and safety robust enough, and from prospective providers stating that it is technically possible to provide a commercially viable price on a marginal cost basis, given a developed system. None of the input suggested that at the price obtainable for a capsule-plus-expendable-launch vehicle system, the market was sufficient to provide a return on the investment of the initial capsule development. In other words, if a capsule is developed that meets commercial needs, there will be customers to share operating costs with NASA, but unless NASA creates significant incentives for the development of the capsule, the service is unlikely to be developed on a purely commercial basis.

            Emphasis mine

            •  That bolded statement is factually refuted (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              palantir, Vladislaw

              by the episode in which Mike Griffin called LM and screamed bloody murder when he heard they were going to do a deal with Bigelow without NASA involvement.

              I assert the bolded language is there precisely to keep NASA fingers involved in every U.S. to LEO effort. In other words, to make sure NASA is not circumvented.

              MirCorp offers another precedent.

              Governing well shall be the best revenge

              by Bill White on Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 04:20:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Mircorp happened (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                palantir

                precisely because its was a combination government/private situation.  Not in spite of it.  

                And I disagree that the Griffin/LM situation refutes it

              •  I agree to a point (0+ / 0-)

                Earth to Leo will always be a national security issue for certain groups within the government and they will always want to get a finger into it one way or another.

                That said, it seemed pretty clear when I had read this the first time that other customers besides NASA would take advantage of these services.

                "Committee received proprietary information from five different companies interested in the provision of commercial crew transportation services to low-Earth orbit. These included large and small companies, some of which have previously developed crew systems for NASA. The Committee also received input from prospective customers stating that there is a market for commercial crew transportation to low-Earth orbit for non-NASA purposes if the price is low enough and safety robust enough"

                •  The question is whether it is necessary for (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Vladislaw

                  NASA to "pave the way" first by buying commercial crew and cargo BEFORE non-NASA destinations go up.

                  If later this month Bolden & Garver declare that official NASA policy is to get multiple destinations up in LEO - very soon - in order to stimulate demand for SpaceX and Dreamchaser development, further lowering the cost of ISS logistics, I will become more supportive of this new path.

                  Governing well shall be the best revenge

                  by Bill White on Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 06:35:05 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Second answer (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          palantir, Vladislaw

          I have been thinking about this issue for almost ten years -- how might people go around NASA rather than through NASA -- and my best answer to that shall be my novel I will be releasing within a few weeks.

          Also, my L2 Cup idea goes around NASA.

          Sponsor a race from LEO to EML-2 and return.

          Soyuz versus Shenzou versus SpaceX Dragon. No NASA involvement (unless they wish to offer deep space tracking radar support for example).

          Governing well shall be the best revenge

          by Bill White on Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 04:12:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (154)
  • Community (59)
  • Civil Rights (38)
  • Baltimore (38)
  • Bernie Sanders (33)
  • Culture (29)
  • Elections (29)
  • Economy (28)
  • Law (25)
  • Texas (23)
  • 2016 (21)
  • Rescued (21)
  • Environment (20)
  • Labor (19)
  • Education (18)
  • Hillary Clinton (18)
  • Racism (17)
  • Media (17)
  • Politics (17)
  • Freddie Gray (17)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site