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View Diary: Streetsmart on both Sides of the Bay (27 comments)

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  •  police, fire, sanitation, utilities, deliveries.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb, Alexandra Lynch

    ....it's all nice & well to say "let's get rid of the evil automobiles," but has anyone given a moment's thought to how public service & utility vehicles are going to get access to properties in the middle of those blocks?  

    In Europe and Japan there are tiny little vehicles designed for that purpose.  Anyone planning to put those into the city budgets in Berkeley and San Francisco?  

    Will the people who have homes and shops along these streets have to roll their refuse & recycling bins out to the nearest intersection where large trucks can get through?  And who's going to do it for the folks who are older, disabled, etc....?

    Will they have to walk their groceries in from blocks away or a central parking lot?  After dark?  In the pouring rain?  

    Will there be increased bus service?  24-hours, 7-days?  

    Has anyone given thought to any of this mundane practical stuff, or is it all about the picturesque view of something vaguely old-world?  

    •  Umm (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bronte17, Alexandra Lynch, BruceMcF

      Have you ever been to any of these places?  Walk their groceries in from blocks away?  This isn't suburbia we're talking about here.  These are very, very densely populated areas with abundant shops in walking distance and frequent transit service.  People walk their groceries in from a few blocks away now, but they do it from the grocery store not from their cars.

      I don't think you have any conception of what these areas are like and what residents would want (i.e. more pedestrian-friendly, and more transit-friendly neighborhoods).

      Your point about the fire and utility services is also beside the point.  There are already lots of narrow streets in SF, and neither the SFFD, PG&E or Sunset Scavenger has any trouble serving The City.

    •  Yes, it's all been considered (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raines, bronte17, BruceMcF, Louisiana 1976

      As I wrote, the Berkeley plan has been in the works for years. So yes, there will be access for everything from deliveries to fire trucks and cops. Every merchant on Center Street has been interviewed several times, every department in the city of Berkeley has looked at and signed off on the plan. It's not a romantic notion but a well thought out plan. You can check it out here. I'm not as familiar with the SF project, but believe me, nothing gets signed off here without all the things you mention carefully considered.

      Live life. Not too fast. Mostly walk. (or bike)

      by citisven on Wed Feb 10, 2010 at 08:52:08 PM PST

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      •  Thanks citisven--hurrah for this idea (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citisven, miss SPED

        Especially in a city like San Francisco, which wants to be more European, HOSTS plenty of European visitors, and IS pretty European, as a culinary and touristic capital.  San Francisco is NOT a great place to own a car, although I think some mathematicians once created a controversial theorem showing that it was actually possible.  We always need to think and rethink the redesign of our city, and pedestrian-friendly zones need to be paramount in that thinking.

        MUNI's budget (MUNI runs the buses and streetcars that serve San Francisco, for those of you not from here) needs to be refreshed, of course, in order to serve these places.  But I think that if business is up x0% in the restaurants in these areas, then tax receipts from tourism might eventually cover that?

        Kudos!  And sorry I missed the tip jar too.

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Thu Feb 11, 2010 at 09:00:26 PM PST

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        •  no worries (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          miss SPED, Villagejonesy

          thanks for checking in, Vj. That is a really good point about the tax receipts, I hadn't thought about. That would be such a perfect double-bonus if increased revenue from a pedestrian zone could be funneled into public transit projects. I say Yes to that!

          Live life. Not too fast. Mostly walk. (or bike)

          by citisven on Thu Feb 11, 2010 at 11:56:49 PM PST

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          •  Yeah! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            citisven, miss SPED

            And... I do have to admit that I love my city.  :D)  And such a big part of it is our food.  Doesn't matter how much money you have (well, to an extent... though the burritos cost twice as much as they do in San Jose, where the Mexican food is better...), you're having a beautiful day in a cafe with some brunch, before you take a walk around the city.  The idea of making it an even more pleasant place to take a walk just gets me in a good mood.  See you around the City!

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Fri Feb 12, 2010 at 12:07:18 AM PST

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            •  Yes, I love it here. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              miss SPED

              What part of the city do you live in? I'm in the Mission and we have some pretty cheap burritos. Cancun on Mission @19th has the $4 super veggie!

              My dream is that eventually Market Street will be a pedestrian zone...

              Live life. Not too fast. Mostly walk. (or bike)

              by citisven on Fri Feb 12, 2010 at 12:24:48 AM PST

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              •  Oh, Market street is a NIGHTmare! for driving (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                beach babe in fl, citisven

                I was actually in downtown until December, and then got a temp job in San Jose.  So I moved down to San Jose, and then (can you guess?) got a temp job in San Francisco, of course.  But not with a long-term lease yet, so I'm waiting to see where I find permanent work before I settle.

                Have you tried Taqueria la Mexicana, at Market and 16th near Dolores?  Mm!  Hearty, sloppy, cheap and great.

                In San Jose, if you go down there, here's the list:

                BEWARE of the awful Chalateco.  There is NO excuse for bad Mexican food in San Jose, California.  This chain has got to close.

                But:

                For Burritos:
                -Los Cazadores, on Lafayette Boulevard, by the 7/11 under the Montague Expressway overpass near 101.  The guy who told me about it kissed his fingers, "mwa!" and he was right.  Don't forget the green sauce.
                -Royal Taco, Montague Expressway, just west of the 680 Freeway near Milpitas.  Their salsa has this curious, not very spicy, but fantastic vegetabley taste. Very unique salsa. Great burritos and enchiladas, too.

                For shredded beef tacos:
                -Santa Fe Taqueria, White Road between Story Road and East Hills.  Great beef.
                -La Victoria Taqueria, 4th and San Carlos Street, by San Jose State University.  The Orange sauce comes by the bottle, if you want to buy some (and you should).

                For Tortas:
                -La Casita Chilanga, 1199 S. King Road, at Story Road.  In addition to great tortas, they have Distrito Federal specialities like Huaraches, which I'd never had before going there.
                -La Victoria (see above).

                That's what I've got for now :D)  Hope you make it down here to try them at some point!

                "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

                by Villagejonesy on Fri Feb 12, 2010 at 12:36:41 AM PST

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                •  oh my god (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  beach babe in fl

                  thanks so much, I love people who are passionate about their Mexican food! I'll definitely copy that info down for the next time I get down there.

                  As for SF, there's a couple of great blogs all about Mexican food. One is http://www.burritoeater.com - very fun. I personally like La Taqueria at 25th and Mission, they don't put rice in their burritos which I like. Also, Papalote at 24th and Valencia, if you wanna go a little healthier. Super tasty though, it's one of my staples. I haven't tried La Mexicana, but I'll check them out. We're truly lucky in the Bay Area, so much great food from all over the world!

                  Live life. Not too fast. Mostly walk. (or bike)

                  by citisven on Fri Feb 12, 2010 at 12:51:50 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You bet! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    beach babe in fl

                    Heh, yes, I am passionate about food of all kinds.  I love this show Check Please, Bay Area, with the beautiful Lorraine Bracco.  They have three ordinary people on, and each picks a resto they like.

                    Our food is really incredible.  I think everyone should go to Boulevard and have their crab-and-avocado salad, and I think Pat Kuleto should have a statue when (God forbid) he ever passes away.

                    Our Thai food is outrageous!  San Francisco and San Jose both have incredible Thai.  Thai Stick, and a bunch of other places downtown, is good.

                    The Indonesian food, too--Borobudur, at Jones and Post (across the street from Thai Stick) was great.

                    I like La Taqueria, I've been there.  I know I've been to Cancun, but it's been a while.  But I'll try Papalote, thanks!!

                    This is a good thing--recommendations galore!  :D  Thanks!

                    "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

                    by Villagejonesy on Fri Feb 12, 2010 at 01:24:06 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Your questions are answered in the link ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bronte17, citisven, miss SPED

      ... which is clearly the most relevant link. "who came up with a plan that everybody likes."

      If you look at the policy appendix, Emergency Vehicle, delivery vehicle, and drop off access are clearly considered, and nobody who bothered to look would need to ask, "Has anyone given thought to any of this mundane practical stuff, ..."

      Start 2010 with Lesbian Creative Works, 100% Yuri from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Thu Feb 11, 2010 at 01:33:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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