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View Diary: What stands in the way of "forcing" a filibuster? (251 comments)

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  •  Still a load of assumptions. (0+ / 0-)

    (1) That the Republicans can keep this up long enough to take time away from fundraising and constituent service.

    (2) That the time away from those thing hurts the Democrats differentially more than it hurts the Republicans.

    (3) That we can't use a public, high profile confrontation with the Republicans to raise money.

    I can go on and on.

    The point is you'll never think your way out of a tough corner if you take assumptions favorable to your opponent for granted.  All these questions are subject to critical evaluation.

    I've lost my faith in nihilism

    by grumpynerd on Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 07:26:22 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  #2 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wsexson, shaharazade

      doesn't make sense-- the GOPers wouldn't have to spend time away from fundraising/etc. It would only take a handful of them to rotate through quorum calls, tying up 50+ Dem senators. So it would definitely hit the Dems more, by a lot, in terms of time spent on the move.

      •  you are searching for excuses at this point (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, Nightprowlkitty, shaharazade

        basically you are now making up and supplying fears thatyou have without any basis for proving them beyond that's what you fear. It is a waste of intellectual effort, but that's how Democrats screw themselves by worrying as you do.

      •  Fair enough. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nightprowlkitty, shaharazade

        It will take more Democratic time.

        I'll rephrase 2:

        (2) The net effect of the time taken will hurt Democrats in both fundraising and constituent services more than it hurts Republicans.

        Let me point out the missing piece here: we are in the middle of a generation long, slow motion train wreck over health care.  What single activity could a Democratic senator do that would benefit his constituents more than passing a public option?

        As for fundraising, sure you lose the press the flesh time with well heeled industry lobbyists.  But a senator can't be all places at all times, nor does he personally raise every dollar his campaign needs. He doesn't personally review every constituent request and personally make the phone calls or send the memos to take care of it. That's what he has campaign staff and an office staff for.

        Here's the counter scenario: You take your senator put him into a high profile public confrontation fighting for what people want and need. Then you send out the proxies and direct mail pieces that show he's battling for what his constitutents want and need.

        I'm not saying it can't be a disaster for the Democrats.  I'm playing Devil's advocate.  If we don't start examining assumptions like these, then the only option if anybody on either side ever wants to get anything done is to either always do it in reconciliation, or to go with the nuclear option. The nuclear option is actually more extreme and potentially more harmful to us in the long run.

        I've lost my faith in nihilism

        by grumpynerd on Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 07:43:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The free press factor is also important (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nightprowlkitty, grumpynerd

          regarding framing. A confrontation in the public eye gives riles up the base, especially in an off year election. It gives Democrats a reason to show up.

          •  That's what happened in Massachusetts (3+ / 0-)

            The base stayed home.

            I myself slogged through the snow to go the polls, but even I, who've voted in every election since 1980, even I was asking myself why the hell I was doing this, if the Democrats couldn't get a bill passed with both houses, a Senate supermajority, and the presidency under their control.

            It's tempting to look at the risks of doing nothing as being negligible in comparison to being blamed for trying and failing.  But after a while people notice that you aren't trying.

            I've lost my faith in nihilism

            by grumpynerd on Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 07:54:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I am starting a b usiness (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ferg, Bob Friend, Nightprowlkitty

              ONe of the things I have learned is that it is easy to make up risks to be afraid of rather than address reality of not knowing. The fact is we don't know. But being afraid of not knowing is no excuse to continue to do the same failed approaches of the past.

            •  but, actually (0+ / 0-)

              they did get a bill passed, but only with the vote of the person who was held that Senate seat you were voting to replace. Without that vote, though, they now can't. So that wasn't terribly logical thinking going on there if that's why Massachussetts Democrats stayed home.

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