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View Diary: The Governor Who Did the Right Thing (266 comments)

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  •  I see someone (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Uberbah, blueocean

    who very clearly believes that bullying is wrong, no matter who does it. The poster said that.

    I think that is something we can ALL agree on and should all work to fight against.

    Also, he didn't say "baby factory." He said "breeder."

    You need to quote people correctly.

    He did not present his view as fact, he presented as his own experience. I agree it seems like he hasn't witnessed a lot of bullying in his life if that's the worst he's seen. But there are actually people that lucky.

    I also think that his apology was more heartfelt than you think it was. Politicians use "I'm sorry you were offended" because they're trying to parse words. People often say, "I'm sorry I hurt you" or "I'm sorry I offended you" not to parse words but because that's how we often express remorse for what we've said or done.

    I have said to my boyfriend more than once, "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" and I certainly feel remorseful and do not at all mean, "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by what I said."

    When someone says, "I am sorry I did [this]" they are taking ownership of what they have done. SO it's not as specific as "I'm sorry I said that and offended you" but what else is he apologizing for other than the thing that he did that offended the person?

    I think it is wrong how so often people here just jump on people for misspeaking or saying something less than perfectly and credit them with all sorts of ill motives that they do not have. We are not all public relations specialists who choose every word precisely. Some of us are just people who can word things inartfully and regret it later.

    Supporting a Pragmatic Approach to Progressive Policies

    by CatM on Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 02:30:02 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then, (0+ / 0-)
      because I saw a thoughtless and uncaring person responding to homogeneous.

      BTW, I find it interesting that in a lengthy post about people "saying something less than perfectly" you inform me that I must quote people correctly because I used the phrase baby factory rather than breeder.  That's simply nitpicking, yet you insist on such total accuracy there, but not when it's something that is going to affect the feelings of the person being responded to.  Very strange.  But whatever.  Your focus on the accuracy or lack of in those areas you feel is important and I'll do the same in the areas I feel is important.  

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 02:38:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, there's a difference (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Uberbah, blueocean

        To me, there is a difference between someone saying something less than perfectly and misquoting someone. Maybe that is because it is my job to quote people accurately.

        Maybe it is because I take things very literally.

        If the poster had said, as you misquoted, that "the worst bullying takes place in the gay community," I would completely share your outrage over such a stupid, unsubstantiated, untrue statement.

        But because what he really said is that "some of the most vicious bullying he has seen" is in the gay community, and also subsequently clarified that he did not mean it the way your quote would suggest he means it, I think accuracy is required.

        Also, I think breeder would stick out more strangely to someone than "baby factory." I personally don't see why one would assume that this had anything to do with the person saying it being gay--as opposed to perhaps someone opposed to overpopulation (I've had friends against reproduction). But I just think when quoting people or even pharaphrasing them, we have an obligation to get quotes right, especially when the misrepresentation gives a different meaning to what is being said.

        When we're speaking ourselves, we should certainly make an effort to say exactly what we mean, but I think a lot of us don't always speak as carefully as we should.

        I think a thoughtless and heartless person would not have tried to apologize to homogenous. I think they would have just come out the door swinging and even gone further, saying "Of course gays are the most vicious bullies!" if that is what they really meant.

        He did not do that, I think because that is not what he meant.

        I know that if I said, "Some of the republicans I know are the biggest a-holes" and someone said, "You are a bigot! How can you say that!" and I really meant it, then I would say, "Republicans ARE the biggest a-holes. How can you say they aren't? And I guess you're one, too." or something ilke that.

        I wouldn't say, "I'm sorry I offended you. I don't think all republicans are a-holes or that republicans are more likely to be a-holes than other people."

        I would only say that if I felt bad that what I meant to say was not coming across properly.

        Supporting a Pragmatic Approach to Progressive Policies

        by CatM on Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 02:53:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, Cat (0+ / 0-)

          But you're wrong on this. Let's try a little thought experiment, shall we?  Let us assume that the poster of the comment we are discussing had said:

          "Some of the biggest skinflints I've ever seen have been in the Jewish community."


          "Some of the most violent criminals I've ever seen have been in the African-American community."  

          Would you be standing up for what the poster had said?  Would you be arguing that s/he was simply discussing his/her own personal experience?  I doubt it.  The difference here is the group to which the stereotyping or offensive comment is directed.  People on this site feel far too free to make comments that are very casually homophobic, and then they try to pretend that the comments are something else.  

          In a similar vein, only yesterday rserven had a rec list diary about just such an issue.  I recommend that you read it.

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