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View Diary: FORK IT! Fine me, tax me, whatever, but I ain't gonna pay (1532 comments)

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  •  Ain't goina happen. Those countries have gov (7+ / 0-)

    control of corporations. Here it is the reverse.

    •  The most naive statement I've read in a while. (4+ / 0-)

      Haven't you heard of multinationals?

      A big night for absolutes, I want a public option too but everyone here is so goddamn certain about how this all plays out. Geez louise.

      Forward to Yesterday -- Reactionary aesthetics and liberal politics (in that order)

      by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:51:14 PM PST

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      •  Yes, and what do you think "freedom on the march" (8+ / 0-)

        was all about?

        Here, they have near super-citizen status.  This is not true in many other nations, where their governments actually protect the people from harm due to those corporations operating.

        We are the only modern nation that has opened up all their markets, with no requirement for balance, totally exposing our means of production to outsourcing to the lowest bidder, destroying our middle class.

        Go talk to people in other nations where they use tariffs, and have social safety net programs, that actually work, so their people are not always working more for less each year.

        We don't have it that good here, in this respect.

        IF THEY ARE GOING TO SCREW THE PEOPLE, MAKE THEM OWN IT.

        by potatohead on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:00:18 PM PST

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      •  Hardly naive at all. Look at how Europe is (10+ / 0-)

        handling some of the other problems. Germany is much more pro-active against multinationals. Switzerland insists that private companies CANNOT make a profit on the basic insurance. It comes down to here the huge costs of elections and the huge amounts of money that is being spent for lobbying - something that even here was not in play to this degree 10-15 years ago.

        •  I'd MUCH prefer a European system here... (0+ / 0-)

          And I'm sure it's vastly closer to being fair. However,  to think corporations there have almost no political power as the original statement implies in Europe just sounds ridiculous, or perhaps I just dreamed up the existence of Silvio Berlusconi.

          Forward to Yesterday -- Reactionary aesthetics and liberal politics (in that order)

          by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:05:27 PM PST

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          •  My point was that on the HCR, here the major (5+ / 0-)

            decisions that were made were framed around the corporate issues: don't touch big Pharma, for profit hospitals, fee-for-service, and now largely the insurance companies. Where is HCR funding going to come from? Largely the pockets of the middle class and poor. All the European countries have a far more equitable system in place for providing services that function at a reasonable price. Here we allow corporations to govern what happens all along the way.

          •  The countries mentioned (0+ / 0-)

            were Germany and Switzerland, which do have tighter control of corporations.

            Silvio Berlusconi is running a Club Med country with much looser regulations.

            Apples and Oranges, like comparing the fiscal habits of Germany and Greece.

            "Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people." - Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1821

            by Jeffersonian Democrat on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 06:53:49 AM PST

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            •  Well, a bunch of Americans like us... (0+ / 0-)

              Probably aren't the best authorities on this, but it just seemed naive to me to assume that just because a country has more enlightened policies on healthcare that it necessarily means that business doesn't have undue influence on at least some matters. When you talk to actual Europeans, they're always disabusing you of such notions, though in my experience they're always quick to admit that we have it much worse on matters like that.

              Forward to Yesterday -- Reactionary aesthetics and liberal politics (in that order)

              by LABobsterofAnaheim on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:05:42 AM PST

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            •  Germany and Greece have quite similar (0+ / 0-)

              fiscal habits, actually.

              Both ran afoul of Euro deficit laws, both took deals with banks that kept the extent of their deficits hidden, and both are under the thumb of their bankers.

              Germany, however, has a much more competitive economy and produces more. That's the main difference right there. That allows them to meet their fiscal habits which are similar to the USA's.

              I'd also point out that over at EuroTribune there has been much talk about the domination of nominally Socialist parties such as the Social Democrats by corporations and banks. I'm not so sure that Germany is vastly different.

              There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

              by upstate NY on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 09:56:47 AM PST

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