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View Diary: Obama, You Owe Hillary an Apology! (310 comments)

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  •  He admitted he was wrong... (28+ / 0-)

    there is no apology necessary...Obama won the primary basically because of AUMF...that is really the difference...

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:19:38 PM PST

    •  You're probably right about AUMF (3+ / 0-)

      I didn't say that he won the primary because of the mandate. I just said that it was a "low-blow" basically. Out of bounds.

      •  oh really? (18+ / 0-)

        hillary going on about not giving up becuase you dont know what will happen  before the primaries were over such as when rfk was assisnated wasn't a low blow?

        there are lots of low blows in primaries.

        Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

        by GlowNZ on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:23:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, I don't remember that happening (0+ / 0-)

          Not good, not good . . .

        •  and that was (3+ / 0-)

          the tame stuff she said.

          I love Barack Obama but.....I voted for Barack Obama but....geesh, enough already.

          If people don't like the man then grow a set, stand up and say so. If you're called a racist, defend your position but stop cowering behind, I yada yada Barack Obama but....

          I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

          by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:32:24 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think anyone's calling me a racist (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mahakali overdrive

            Are they?

            •  No. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive

              "[A] vote for a Republican, no matter what you think of him as a person, is a vote for paralysis." -- Paul Krugman

              by kaliope on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:42:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  My point is (4+ / 0-)

              don't couch your comments against the President in terms of, I like him but...for many of us, it's like fingernails across a chalk board or saying, I have Black friends.

              I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

              by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:42:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, I guess it could be ingenuous (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WisePiper, PhilJD

                but you're free to check my diary history. I was a soldier here at Daily Kos for Barack when most everyone else was for Edwards or Kucinich. It's relevant to the point because there's still plenty of bitter Hillary supporters, and for me, it's not about that at all. It's more about looking at how campaign tactics have consequences.

              •  fingernails (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                stevej

                I like Obama, and I canvassed, donated and voted for him in both the primary and the general, BUT I'm deeply disappointed that he hasn't stood up for constitutional principles (e.g habeas corpus) that he campaigned on.  I haven't peeled off my Obama '08 bumper sticker, but I'm not promising unconditional support either.

                •  I'm happy (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MKSinSA, sherijr

                  for you and your bumper stickers and I really don't mean that to sound as snarky as I know it does. Personally, I don't do bumper stickers, never have. Don't like that sort of thing all over my car.

                  You have every right to feel anyway you choose about the President, I don't share your views but that's another story but I don't need to know about bumper stickers, or how much you campaigned, or how much money you gave. What's the point? Why is that info relevant to how you feel now?

                  I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                  by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:14:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Why are you bringing race (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JupiterIslandGirl

                into this?

                •  I'm actually glad you (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  blindyone, MKSinSA

                  asked that question. It gives me a chance to say something that's been bugging me for quite some time.

                  I brought race into it because I'm Black and I often look at things from that perspective. Many think that is wrong, I don't. I also don't think it's wrong Whites or any other race, look at things through their eyes.  

                  I truly appreciate and understand the Kumbaya aspect of, we're all the same....the fact is , we are not. What's even more important, it's ok. It's ok to be different.  Embracing those differences is what all people should be striving to do, not trying to assimilate everyone into one race.

                  Because we are different we will often see things through a different lens. As a Black person, when I hear, I like Barack Obama but, or when I hear, I did this for him to get elected , I did that...it gets annoying. If a person wants to criticize the President, state your case and criticize, but hearing what you did for him isn't relevant to that criticism. What's the point of saying it, will it soften the blow of the criticism, I doubt it. From where I sit, the point has to do with many people thinking they have to qualify their statement so others will not think they are racist. I'm not saying my thinking is correct, I'm simply saying how I see it through my lens. If it were done a few times, I wouldn't think twice about it but it's done quite often...why?

                  If I can't express myself as a Black person, from a Black perspective, how will other races ever began to too see things through my eyes? If you are not able to see or at least try to see things though my eyes, how will we ever learn to embrace one another as people, people that are different and unique in many shades, colors, cultures, etc.?

                  I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                  by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 08:25:08 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "through" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    blindyone

                    and one last question, I think it's time people start asking themselves, why do they get so upset when race IS brought into a discussion.

                    I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                    by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 08:28:11 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  that should read "are not" (0+ / 0-)

                    I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                    by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 08:32:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  For the record, I share Obama's exact (0+ / 0-)

                    racial background, except African-American, not African on my father's side.

                    •  ok (0+ / 0-)

                      However, although I see and embrace the President as a Black man, there are many things we do not, and will not agree on in terms of the Black experience. I think that is true with many Mixed race children. It's not good or bad, it just is.

                      Also try and understand, I am from an older generation, a generation that grew up in a segregated South so again, my cultural experience will not always be the same as a younger person growing up in a different environment.

                      There are many things that make us different as well as many things that make us the same but it's those differences, that I fight to hold on to. Those are the things that truly make me who I am and I'm quite partial to me.:)

                      What's important to me is a person's willingness to embrace the differences as well as, listen to someone with a different point of view. You exhibited that quality and as a result, the color line disappeared instantly. The color of your skin or your racial and ethnic makeup was not important to me but thanks for sharing...and that's sincere, not snark.:)  

                      I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                      by JupiterIslandGirl on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:19:25 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Well, it seemed that you might've been assuming (0+ / 0-)

                        that I wasn't black, so I felt the need to "share". Normally, I wouldn't think to do so. I agree that mixed black people sometimes see things somewhat differently than other black people, although that is in itself a generalization.

                        I always welcome all points of view in my diaries, and I'm glad you showed up to give some thoughts.

                        •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                          I did assume you were not a person of color, mainly because the majority of posters on Kos are not Black, and the majority of the posters tend to qualify their criticism with, I like Obama but...or something along those lines.

                          It's become one of those idioms that has really started to grate on my nerves. At one point I caught myself  qualifying my statements in support of the President in order to convince people I wasn't some stargaze idiot and even that started to get on my nerves. I made a conscious effort to stop. I'm secure in who I am and know I'm not an idiot. I don't have to prove anything to anyone and don't require anyone to prove anything to me.

                          I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                          by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 02:56:48 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Do you feel a need a black person (0+ / 0-)

                            to support the President?

                          •  "as a black person" (0+ / 0-)
                          •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

                            To be honest, my firs choice was Richardson. Once he dropped out I didn't know who I would vote for, only who I wouldn't vote for and Barack Obama was one of three on that list. Initially, I didn't think he was ready for the job.

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 07:56:03 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  first (0+ / 0-)

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 08:08:52 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  and no (0+ / 0-)

                            I do not feel a need to support him because he's Black.

                            As I said, he wasn't my first choice. I remembered his speech for Kerry and was impressed but by the time he threw his hat in the ring, I didn't think he was ready. I also thought he was naive and if you remember, his first couple of debates(when everyone was still in the running) were pretty pathetic.

                            After Richardson dropped out I wasn't impressed with any of the candidates. Hillary Clinton was and is an extremely smart woman but to this day I do not feel she is presidential material. I'm from NC so I knew out of the gate Edwards was a phony. When it looked as if those three would be one of my choices, I seriously considered not voting at all. Eventually I started to get more engaged,  and started doing research on Obama. The more I read, the more my opinion of him started changing but it was his reaction to the first Rev. Wright tape that finally sealed the deal for me. It was at that point I knew this man had a serious set of balls. Against all politically wisdom, he stood  firmly for what he believed in. I saw a man who was more concerned with doing what he felt was right, than winning an election. From that point on, he has had my full support. Haven't always agreed with his decisions but I have yet to question his belief in doing what he feels is right, no matter how it appears. I think he's made mistakes and I also think he's stubborn but at no time have I felt he was deliberately making choices that were not in the best interest of the American people. (Whether I agree with those choices or not.)

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 08:29:05 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's pretty funny actually (0+ / 0-)

                            My Obama story is probably the exact opposite of yours.

                            I sent him a contribution the first day he announced his exploratory committee, and sent an email to everyone I know encouraging him to do the same. Bottom line for me was smart community organizer with looks and charisma. People in my community still refer to me as the "Obama guy" because I was a dedicated, die-hard supporter from then until that exact speech to which you refer.

                            I was very disappointed in that speech because prior to that he had played the racial angle perfectly in my book, which was to stand strong for those things that are ostensibly racially neutral, but which will overwhelmingly and disproportionately benefit black folks, while all the time never explicitly mentioning racial issues, instead always staying above the racial fray.

                            The simple answer to Rev. Wright was, "What he said was beyond the pale, I don't agree with it, and therefore I'm leaving his church". In fact, about a month after the race speech he did exactly that:

                            So the race speech was completely ineffective in what it set out to do -- put the Rev. Wright issue to rest -- yet the white media and others fell all over themselves to proclaim it to be the greatest things since sliced bread.

                            I was still "with" Obama at that point, but that's when I began to realize that maybe he didn't have things figured out to the extent that I thought he did.

                            Not too long after that he reneged on his pledge to accept public financing in the general election if his opponent did as well, and that was more or less the end of my faith in Barack Obama as a transformative figure in American politics. I still voted for him of course, and even traveled to Nevada as an attorney poll-watcher volunteer, but my faith was gone and he's done nothing to revive it since.

                          •  You misunderstood (0+ / 0-)

                            I never said his speech sold me. I thought it was a great speech and a necessary one but It was the man standing up for doing what he felt was right against all political wisdom that sold me.

                            Here is a rather interesting thing about our differences, My faith is often tested, but my faith is always strong.

                            Hope someday you find another politician to hitch your faith to. Good luck.

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 01:42:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  One more differecene (0+ / 0-)

                            and I'm guessing this may be age related. I'm a lot more pragmatist than you. Too often realities have a way of knocking promises upside the head. It sometime sucks, seems unfair and many could argue, it's wrong to give in to realities against your promises, but that's life and often means survival to do so.

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 01:50:02 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  pragmatic (0+ / 0-)

                            sorry, I always forget to edit. It's a really bad habit of mine.

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 02:10:09 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm more pragmatic than you may think (0+ / 0-)

                            I serve on a city commission. I practice public interest law in an "inner-city" community. I'm well aware of the realities of trying to accomplish good things against the obstacles that exist.

                            I'm not critical of Obama because he hasn't solved all of the problems of the world. I'm critical of more specific things that he could do and hasn't, or shouldn't do, and has.

                            For example, when the bailout first came to a vote, the Congressional Black Causes as a whole voted against it. Obama was brought in and he personally called a bunch of them and got them to switch their votes. The CBC then provided the margin for its eventual passage on the second vote. That was an action that was completely within his power.

                          •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            pragprogress

                            My pragmatic comment had more to do with his change of heart on public financing.

                            You said it best earlier in this exchange, we will have to agree to disagree. I support my President.

                            Thanks for the conversation. I've enjoyed it.

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 03:26:59 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Likewise (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JupiterIslandGirl

                            Thanks for commenting in my diary!

                          •  and doing (0+ / 0-)

                            I brought my mop Mr President, let's do this!

                            by JupiterIslandGirl on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 01:51:44 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm glad you stated: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    pragprogress

                    "I'm not saying my thinking is correct...", because it needs to be pointed out that if President Obama looked at the world through the same lens you do, he would not be president.  
                    I don't think anyone would say being black, one would have the same experiences as being white in America; likewise being female as to male, being gay as to straight, being....  I think you get my point.  What do they think?  How do they behave?  If one doesn't like, or is displeased with something about the president, it could simply be because of what the president said or did.  

        •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

          Neither candidate was a wild-eyed dreamer speaking frankly and ingenuously about their best ideas for fixing the country.  They were both practicing politics.

          Hillary Clinton espoused specific health care reforms, and Obama disagreed on some points -- whether because he honestly had different ideas or to create a salient in their primary battle.

          Where there are pie fights, there must be pie. Henry Clay

          by deminva on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:49:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Do you really think... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marabout40

        that Candidate Obama did not think he was right at the time and just came to a new conclusion after looking at the whole policy and its implications?

        If you really think he was pandering and knew Hillary was right...then I agree...

        Obama - Change I still believe in

        by dvogel001 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:24:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I dunno (0+ / 0-)

          Honestly, I had debates with people here at Daily Kos at the time, and probably half the people here understood the logic and relunctantly supported the individual mandate for that reason. Those are people who aren't sitting U.S. Senators, don't have policy advisors, and who aren't presenting themselves as the most qualified person to lead the country.

          Nobody questions Obama's intelligence. If so many other people were aware of these arguments, why do you think he wouldn't have been?

      •  Are we going... (5+ / 0-)

        to be counting low blows - you'll need an abacus or two for each - let's move on - it looks like Hillary has.

        •  Thanks for this. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WisePiper

          I was getting ready to get nasty in response to that comment, but you make a good point.  Hillary has put this behind, so I should as well.

          I'm gay, I'm pissed, I'm not giving up, I'm not giving in, I'm not shutting up, and I'm not going away. Deal with it.

          by psychodrew on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:58:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  so was "hard-working americans...white americans" (0+ / 0-)
    •  Hillary lost because of 'Bullets over Bosnia' (5+ / 0-)

      After being caught with that ridiculous story, and clumsily trying to deny it, and then clumsily walking it back- she was basically finished.

    •  Maybe. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive

      But if that's (1), (1a) is "had a better delegate strategy for Super Tuesday."

      •  Oh snap, and so true (0+ / 0-)

        the delegate strategy was sheer brilliance. No one saw it coming. It was... fun to watch. I caught on pretty early that they'd really done the math (thanks Nate Silver!)... after that, I sort of sat back and smiled. Like the best chess game of all time.

        Maybe that's part of why some people still think he's playing 11-D Chess. Because the delegate strategy was, more or less.

        Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice. - MLK

        by mahakali overdrive on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:26:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was part of the California campaign (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive

          and early on I realized that if we just prevented Hillary from having a blow-out here, that the math would favor him from then on. Her campaign was predicated on ending it on Super Tuesday, and she had New York and New Jersey, and she thought California because of the Latino factor. But we worked our asses off to pull every possible delegate we would out of here and in the end I think we got like 40% and that was enough . . .

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