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View Diary: Obama, You Owe Hillary an Apology! (310 comments)

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  •  the mandate isn't as unpopular (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive

    as one might assume.

    It's not the public option or anything, but it tends to poll better than the bill as a whole.

    •  Mandates with a public option and choice versus (1+ / 0-)
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      Lady Libertine

      Mandates to buy private insurance.

      I haven't seen that poll. I would love to see it... if you happen know of one. Please give me a link.

      But I'm pretty sure it would look something like current polls of The Public Option polling much better than the current legislation.

      Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

      by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:20:35 PM PST

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      •  A few months ago there was a lot of discussion (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jethrock

        here at Daily Kos along those lines. Quite a few of us thought the mandate was only valid if there was also a public option. I haven't seen many of those people now arguing against the mandate even though there will probably be no public option.

        •  Well I'm one of those people who was strongly (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TracieLynn

          in the "kill the Senate Bill" camp...

          Today... I guess I'm much more in the Howard Dean camp... yesterday on MSNBC he said something along the lines of "I don't like the current bill... but it's better than nothing if we can fix it through reconciliation and expand Medicare to those who are 55"

          I'm paraphrasing (that's not a direct Howard Dean quote) because I'm to lazy to search for the exact quote right now.

          Regardless of what happens... whether the current legislation gets passed or not the Healthcare fight will be far from over.

          I do think the country will be in a better position if it does pass as is...

          But I fear that the White House may have made a huge miscalculation by trying to search for the imaginary middle.

          It's hard enough to get people to mid-term elections as is... and by discouraging the base and people who expected the Healthcare Plan Obama campaigned on... it may prove to be at their own detriment.

          Obama had the people strongly behind him... but he caved to a weaker bill.

          Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

          by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:47:15 PM PST

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        •  dude (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jethrock

          b/c people are arguing over... excise tax and reconciliation and Fix First vs Fix Later and a ton of other stuff ... after They basically took PO off the table.... whats to discuss?

          I still hate the mandate (and so does Ministry of Truth! lol)

          man... Friday night at the Kosland... heh. We need some tunes or somethin'!

          Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does. Margaret Mead

          by Lady Libertine on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:47:34 PM PST

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          •  I have one foot in... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lady Libertine

            ... the Kill the Senate Bill camp and one foot in the Howard Dean camp of hold your nose and pass this piece of shit, better than nothing, missed opportunity bill.

            Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

            by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:56:03 PM PST

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            •  yah, depends on (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jethrock

              who Im talking to. Or where rather. ha ha. IRL Im much more outspoken.

              But I do understand that, politically, Dems have to pass something, even if a lot of us know its teh suck. We just have to keep working and pushing for real progress and reform. Probably for the rest of my life. And longer.

              ooh Rachel Maddow... got it goin' on now.

              Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does. Margaret Mead

              by Lady Libertine on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:10:14 PM PST

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              •  Although I like to portray myself as... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lady Libertine

                "The Smartest Guy In The Room" I've killed far too many brain cells since I was skipped ahead in first grade... and again in third grade (it was fun though).

                Putting aside politics and elections for a moment--

                One of my fears is that the current legislation actually may give the insurance industry a stronger hand... by increasing and encouraging their role.

                The more we privatize... we lose more accountability.

                I was a Stockbroker/Assets Manager with insurance licenses in the late 90's and early 2000's...

                I have a pretty good idea how the industries can bypass most of the new regulations... and how little control the Feds will have over quality control of the private sector.

                That's why the Public Option was so crucial... I hope the current legislation doesn't prevent progress.

                That is my fear. I hope I don't know what I'm talking about.

                Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

                by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:38:04 PM PST

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                •  I think you hit the nail on the head though (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jethrock, Lady Libertine

                  Regulatory capture is the name of the game these days. We are enshrining the role in insurance companies in our health care system, and we are even functionally guaranteeing their profitability. It won't end well . . .

                  •  Now that's what I can agree with... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Lady Libertine

                    I think most of your points I do actually agree with,

                    Except the Obama apologizing to Hillary silliness.

                    Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

                    by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:45:47 PM PST

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                    •  It's catchy though! (0+ / 0-)

                      Gotta have a hook!

                      •  If you're looking for controversy, sure. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Lady Libertine

                        Why do you think Limbaugh and Beck get the big bucks... But Frontline has to be produced on PBS?

                        Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

                        by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:58:13 PM PST

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                        •  Well I want to discuss the individual (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          jethrock, Lady Libertine

                          mandate, but if I just did that, there'd be five comments and that'd be the end of it. Sorry for stirring stuff up a little bit . . .

                          •  It's ok to stir stuff up... (1+ / 0-)
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                            Lady Libertine

                            I'm just a New Yorker that was opposed to Hillary as Senator as well as her bid for the Presidency.

                            I did vote for Hillary against the Republican but not in the primary during her first election. And voted for Obama in the NY primary (although she won NY).

                            I think Hillary and Bill have both become better people since she lost to Obama.

                            There was a certainty and arrogance that the Presidency was owed to her that seethed in her campaign that was truly despicable.

                            As you know by now... I don't hold back my criticism from Obama either. I'm a Liberal first... a Democrat second. I have zero role in the party other than being an activist and donating when appropriate (if I believe in the candidate).

                            Baby's on fire And all the laughing boys are bitching, Waiting for photos, Oh the plot is so bewitching-- Brian Eno

                            by jethrock on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 07:18:49 PM PST

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                          •  I'm right with you (0+ / 0-)

                            I was incredibly motivated to work for Obama partially because I really wanted to see the end of the "Clinton machine" within the Democratic Party.

          •  Well I think it should be discussed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tnproud2b, Lady Libertine

            because it's the logjam that's preventing a better bill from coming together, and it's going to be an albatross around the necks of the Dem's for the next two or three elections cycles.

    •  Just slightly . . . (0+ / 0-)

      The latest poll I saw ahd the mandate in the 40's while the bill is in the 30's. I've seen other polls where it was much lower though.

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