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View Diary: Woozles for Winograd and Winograd for Woozles! (177 comments)

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  •  Leftie Gunner: the vaccinations are mandated by (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SomeStones, StateofEuphoria

    law.

    The dental cleanings do as much good for pets as they do for people. Gingivitis can lead to systemic infections. These have recently been linked to increased risk of heart attack in humans (and it's been known for a while that persistent infections in the mouth can lead to tooth loss and other problems in animals).

    Now if you want to try to clean a cat's teeth while the cat is wide awake, go ahead. I"m not going to do that to my cats,
    because the trauma is bad for them, and I don't need to have to go to the ER to have stitches.

    So what I would say to you is, rethink your positions.

    Texas is NO Bush League! LBJ, Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 12:48:30 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Only rabies. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emmasnacker, mayrose

      I'm talking about the broad-spectrum puppy vaccines, that the AVA has known for years are effective for the life of the animal, but which many vets perform as an annual thing.

      This is not needed, it's possibly harmful to the animal, and were the patient a human, it would be illegal. But it's highly profitable. A vaccine that I can buy over the internet for 5 bucks will cost me 50 at my vet. That's just for the vaccine. Add 75 for the examination, plus whatever upsells the staff can get me to buy while I'm there.

      As to pet dentistry, there's one huge difference between pets and humans. Lifespan. Pets live 10 to 15 years, humans live 70. But the rates of dental decay are the same, because the bacteria have the same lifespan. They simply don't live long enough for it to be a problem normally, and when it is, corrective dentistry is still available. And again, what does the peer-reviewed research say? Does the risk of not performing sedated dental cleaning on a domestic animal outweigh the risks of sedating that animal? I've seen nothing that says that it does. Pets lived long, healthy lives long before the introduction of routine veterinary dentistry... which is less than 20 years old. I'm forced to suspect that this is more about the Benjamins than it is about the Benjis.

      There's a hell of a lot of vets that are profiting on the anthropomorphizing of pets, and playing up guilt in their customers to extract more money from them.

      If vets were held to the same legal standards of practice that human doctors are, there's a lot of services that wouldn't be sold.

      It's unethical gouging, pure and simple.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 01:01:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Very true - the new protocols recommended by (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emmasnacker, trs

        Colorado State University Vet School and Dr Jean Dodds among others call for minimal vaccinations once the puppy vaccs are done.

        Raw knuckle bones sawn in half through the ball does an excellent job of tooth cleaning. And better diets can improve health as well.

        Understanding is a two-way street. Eleanor Roosevelt

        by mayrose on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 01:19:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Live in a fact-free zone if you want (0+ / 0-)

        but the animals need the annual checkup.

        Parvo is a virus.

        FeLuke is a virus.

        Do you believe in flu shots?

        Texas is NO Bush League! LBJ, Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 01:20:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Vaccination for those viruses (0+ / 0-)

          creates immunity that lasts for the rest of your dog's life.

          So why give boosters?

          And given that the AVA has known this for years, why is your vet recommending routine boosters?

          Might it be for profit?

          Hmmm....

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 01:28:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't happen to have a dog (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SomeStones

            but if I did I'd be reluctant to lose the canine to parvo or distemper for lack of a $30 vaccination.

            You didn't answer my question about flu shots, btw.

            Texas is NO Bush League! LBJ, Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 03:32:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  well, actually, I did... (0+ / 0-)

              sort of.

              A single influenza vaccine provides immunity against that particular strain of virus for decades. It's just there are new influenza viruses coming around all the time.

              Influenza is very unusual in this regard.

              You don't get a polio or measles booster shot... because they aren't needed. For most viruses, periodic exposure is all that's required to continue the protection for life. Which is probably why we're seeing an uptick in shingles (adult chicken pox)... we vaccinate children for it now, so adults who've had it are not re-exposed anymore, and the immunity fades.

              And it's not just about the 30 bucks, (actually it's 5 bucks as I vaccinate my own dog), nor even about the unethical practices of the vets pushing them. Any medical procedure has risks. Those risks are balanced against the benefits, and an informed decision is made. When there is no benefit, any risk at all drives the risk / reward ratio to infinity.

              --Shannon

              "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
              "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

              by Leftie Gunner on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 05:29:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  flu strains change and mutate (0+ / 0-)

                yearly (if not oftener), as you say.

                The pneumonia shot is supposed to be good for life.

                There are certain other shots required (or boosters needed)
                and as we are finding out about more and more viral diseases,
                "immunity" wanes with many more organisms than the herpes virus that causes shingles and/or the bug that causes lockjaw.

                Polio boosters are recommended if you're traveling to some countries now, btw -- Africa, India, any of the -istans.

                Measles is one of several conditions for which a series of vaccines is now recommended.

                Texas is NO Bush League! LBJ, Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees -7.50,-5.59

                by BlackSheep1 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 08:00:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dogs live for 10 - 15 years, (0+ / 0-)

                  humans 60 to 80 years.

                  That makes an enormous difference to the proper practice of medicine.

                  --Shannon

                  "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
                  "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

                  by Leftie Gunner on Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 01:11:16 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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