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View Diary: The Big WTO Problems With The Senate Bill- A Globalization Gotcha Like No Other (35 comments)

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  •  Single payer is prevented by any kind of access (1+ / 0-)
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    truong son traveler

    that cannot be ended. Countries that have single payer don't allow insurance companies to sell medical insurance products there. Anything else is not single payer and can't save practically any money.

    its like saying "we are going to have this single payer option"

    The benefits of single payer can't accrue until the government is the single payer.

    This requires it being the only game in town, because otherwise it has to pay more for everything, it has to pay market rate.

    The market is controlled by that government so the drug companies, for example, cannot say we're just going to sell our products to XYZ and ABC but not you because you wont pay us what we ask for. Under single payer that would be quite counterproductive for them because then their competition will simply get the business, and they will lose both the market and the profit.

    This is the way all the other developed nations do it, even the ones that have nonprofit public-interest centric "insurers" - nothing like ours)

    The government is the negotiator.. They have the sole legal ability to buy all services (and then, the other side of that is that it must provide them to everybody who needs them, equally.)

    Drugs are a particularly good example of how this works well for many nations, they pay a fraction of what we pay for drugs.

    It used to be that the US was the major drug exporter in the world, but that is changing, now European countries are patenting the most drugs, many US manufacturers are having their most profitable drugs fall off patent

    The Europeans have been investing heavily in their healthcare and educational systems for decades and now its really starting to pay off well for them.
    meanwhile, Americans are tied to a huge weight, these companies are addicted to easy money and government help in extorting money from us, and even though we can't afford it any more they refuse to know when its time to stop.

    Selling Insurance across State Lines triggers NAFTA-like provisions in the GATS treaty that potentially makes affordable healthcare impossible!

    by Andiamo on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 05:35:59 PM PDT

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    •  Hold on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler

      Why hasn't this agreement come into effect in Switzerland or the Netherlands both  do  not have single payer and a mixture of public and private insurance

      In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

      by jsfox on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 06:16:06 PM PDT

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      •  They probably predated these agreements (0+ / 0-)

        Also, European "private" systems are nonprofit, really nonprofit. They are nothing like the private for profit corporations here.

        For example, every Dutch citizen has around $160 a month taken out of their taxes (so people cannot be dumped because they missed a bill by a day) and they get full health coverage for everybody, with no extra costs.

        Selling Insurance across State Lines triggers NAFTA-like provisions in the GATS treaty that potentially makes affordable healthcare impossible!

        by Andiamo on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 06:32:33 PM PDT

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        •  No (0+ / 0-)

          Netherlands started their news system in 2006

          In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

          by jsfox on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 06:36:39 PM PDT

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          •  The EU has a LOT of information on PubMed Central (0+ / 0-)

            Selling Insurance across State Lines triggers NAFTA-like provisions in the GATS treaty that potentially makes affordable healthcare impossible!

            by Andiamo on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 07:35:49 PM PDT

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            •  I think both the EU and US have applied for (0+ / 0-)

              and gotten some exemptions in some specific areas. That is mentioned in the report.

              Perhaps we could do that too. But, we need to explicitly state the fact that this exemption permits single payer (no access for private insurers in that geographic area, public insurance, funded by taxes, no commercial sales, single payer, single buyer) and public- national or state run "optional" insurance plans as well. (The kind that Ontario was not allowed to implement with auto insurance by NAFTA in 1993 because they represented a barrier to trade)

              Really, we need an exemption for health services because otherwise, foreign insurance firms may well start selling the low value plans they sell in the Third World here. And they are like the terrible high deductible plans many third tier insurance firms sell here now, the kinds that cause so many problems.

              Bluntly, its CRUCIAL that all of this be done BEFORE arrogant, corrupt politicians who "represent Americans" give the false stamp of approval to a really badly crafted ugly bill that could be used in the future to FALSELY say that Americans "did not want single payer healthcare", when they CLEARLY DO overwhelmingly DO want a national all-inclusive plan, paid for by taxes, that covers everybody affordably...

              Americans will not stand by and let legislators do an end run around democracy- They want real, nt fake change. The change they want is not more of the same, or WORSE of the same.

              Americans know the difference between crapsurance and decent quality healthcare. They aren't stupid. They know Canada manages this issue, it isn't rocket science.

              Americans are already very pissed off that legislators keep trying to say they support crap-underinsurance, when they don't They want QUALITY HEALTHCARE - whatever it takes. If it takes major regulation of providers and throwing the insurers out once and for all, they want and need that.

              They do not want more of the same.

              For evidence of that, just look at Massachusetts's mess.

              The people of this country come first.

              If the legislators want to comply with the WTO requests that gave the multinationals permanent, irrevocable access to our market, permanently kicking single payer into the "impossible to ever do" category- even as hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying a year because they can't afford healthcare, they will find that Americans don't want to reelect them and want to dump these trade agreements as well.

              THAT would be the last straw.

              Get my point?

              The fact that both the McCain and Obama campaigns contained proposals that would have initiated the WTO treaty provisions for healthcare scares me.

              I would be surprised if it was not intentional. Politicians pretend to endorse affordability but their real allegiance is to their big corporate donors. They have also proven to be very dishonest on everything involved with this particular issue.

              They would like nothing more than to do an end run around democracy and prevent affordable healthcare by fiat.

              Selling Insurance across State Lines triggers NAFTA-like provisions in the GATS treaty that potentially makes affordable healthcare impossible!

              by Andiamo on Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 08:51:38 PM PDT

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          •  Wasn't the Dutch system changed then based on (0+ / 0-)

            international law concerns?

    •  Has to pay market rate? (0+ / 0-)

      The US government can send out forms to providers saying agree to provide care for say 50% of the current Medicare rate or be prepared to compete against Dr. Yisheng and fellow newcomers such as a Peoples Liberation Army USA Hospital Corporation using Chinese conscript rate labor unless at least 95% of the forms are signed and returned by 4/1/2010.

      •  I suspect that subcontracting is a big part of (0+ / 0-)

        the whole thrust, yes, indeed. But Chinese doctors, however competent, I think would have to re-certify themselves to practice IN THE US.

        If the US ships its disabled overseas no such limitations apply.

        That kind of international trade is growing.

        For example, the island of Nauru, which is in the South Pacific, approximately six feet above sea level, has a thriving business housing "economic refugees" from Asian countries like Burma and Iraq who attempt to sail to Australia and are intercepted by Australian ships not unlike the US Coast Guard intercepts boats filled with Haitian refugees and tows them back to Haiti.

        They house them in clean, well lighted dormitories under 24/7 video surveillance thousands of miles from Australian shores, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

        Selling Insurance across State Lines triggers NAFTA-like provisions in the GATS treaty that potentially makes affordable healthcare impossible!

        by Andiamo on Mon Mar 15, 2010 at 06:54:14 AM PDT

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