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View Diary: Alan Grayson Rips the 'Liar' Alan Greenspan a New One (233 comments)

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  •  Well, I don't think she is saying (71+ / 0-)

    that Greenspan is solely responsible, but the "Oracle" and Robert Rubin are up right now, and they were the ones primarily responsible for pushing the legislation you cite. That is why it is such a joke for me to hear Clinton exclaiming that this downturn could never happen on his watch with his team! They were the ones who engineered it!

    A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

    by nippersdad on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 10:17:47 AM PDT

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    •  Greenspan never saw a bubble he didn't like (24+ / 0-)

      The Fed sets margin requirements for stock investors, and while Greenspan is credited with (blandly and belatedly) noting "irrational exuberance" in the securities markets, he never used the one really good tool he had to do anything about it: He could have required speculators to put up 100% of the money they were betting on stock prices.

      The mortgage meltdown is cut from the same cloth. Investors (including some home buyers) going wild on easy credit. The wonderful thing about leverage when assets are appreciating, is the horrible thing about leverage when asset valuation bubbles finally burst.

      There are just 10 kinds of people; those who know binary and those who don't.

      by RudiB on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 11:05:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the Fed doesn't set margin for futures (7+ / 0-)

        which include commodities, one of the biggest of which, oil, directly deepened the recession in 2008.  The margin requirements for commodities are only 5-15%.  The margin requirements for stocks during the tech bubble were 50% and even at 100% we would have likely still had the tech bubble, as people were buying crap like etoys at $80/share.

        •  Once again Silver Oz: (34+ / 0-)

          This is what the Federal Reserve is legally mandated to do for our nation in the our laws:

          The Federal Reserve has four main responsibilities: to maximum employment and prevent inflation; to keep the financial system from imploding; to maintain the safety and soundness of financial institutions; and to protect consumers against deceptive and unfair financial products.

          And the Federal Reserve has failed, miserably on each of these mandates.  Failed.

          ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

          by Badabing on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 11:35:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Except (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sparhawk, Josiah Bartlett, Sanuk, RudiB

            Congress gets to establish the rules for the game in which the Fed operates.  So, when Congress passes laws that completely change the game (ie CFMA and FSMA), the Fed essentially has to play catch up to an escalating financial complexity picture without knowing for certain whether any given policy/regulatory move would have its intended (ie theorized) outcome.  I am not saying that the Fed didn't blow some of its duties, but the Fed wasn't put in a position to accomplish all of its mandates by the laws Congress hampered our economy with.

            •  Greenspan was God for years (26+ / 0-)

              I still recall him sitting next to HRC at SOTUs.  According to Woodward, DC's court stenographer, he was The Maestro.  Except for Bernie Sanders, I can't recall anyone in either house who dared to question the Mighty Oz when he came to testify before Congressional committees.

              Substantively, Greenspan treated Congress w/ the same disdain and the same sense of entitlement that Cheney displayed.  Greenspan did it w/ a diplomacy and an aplomb, however, that kept the Hill from challenging or resenting him.  The very idea that he was somehow hamstrung by Congress is akin to the idea that Cheney was somehow hamstrung by the Constitution.

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 12:38:19 PM PDT

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            •  Whatever, this doesn't go away: (17+ / 0-)

              The Federal Reserve has four main responsibilities: to maximum employment and prevent inflation; to keep the financial system from imploding; to maintain the safety and soundness of financial institutions; and to protect consumers against deceptive and unfair financial products.

              If Congress passes a law saying cornered burglars get a 3 minute head start when fleeing, the cops still have the job of catching the burglars. And they have the duty to inform Congress of the bad effect this law is having on their work.

              Show me where Greenspan told Congress this would have bad consequences for the Fed doing it's job (see blockquote above.)

              Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

              by Jim P on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 12:42:54 PM PDT

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              •  And that is exactly the point Jim...what we are (10+ / 0-)

                now seeing is the biggest 'power grab' by the Federal Reserve in this history of our nation.  The Federal Reserve is 'not a 4th Branch of our government' but is certainly acting like they are.  The 'rules' need to be re-written, and through audit needs to be conducted, and not by the current GAO standards as limited in the 1950 Accounting and Auditing Act, that veils the Federal Reserve into a semi-quasi private CIA type organization, that answers to 'NO ONE.'

                Many people do not currently understand how that law works:  It enables the FED to act as a separate branch of our government, and that is not only unconstitutional but it also puts into question how independent the FED really is, because indeed, there is absolutely no public scrutiny nor Congressional Oversight.  

                This is what the GAO is not allowed to audit:

                The GAO is EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN BY LAW from auditing the Fed in its most sensitive and most dangerous areas!

                Federal Banking Agency Audit Act Pub. L. 95-320, July 21, 1978, 92 Stat. 391

                http://thomas.loc.gov/...

                PROHIBITS THE GAO FROM AUDITING

                (1) transactions conducted on behalf of or with foreign central banks, foreign governments, and nonprivate international financing organizations;

                (2) deliberations, decisions, and actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

                (3) transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee including transactions of the Federal Reserve System Open Market Account; and

                (4) those portions of oral, written, telegraphic, or telephonic discussions and communications among or between Members of the Board of Governors, and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System which deal with topics listed in this Act.

                The Fed is UN-AUDITABLE where it counts, BY LAW! They don't want you poking into their behind-the-scenes manipulation and foreign collusion.

                www.themoneymasters.com
                http://www.monetary.org/

                If the American people truly understood the 'deal and partnership' that has been going on between Wall Street/the Banks all these years, then what we would understand is what Robert Kuttner has continued to voice and warn so many about:

                That presently between Bernanke/Geithner there is a very dangerous dictatorship taking place.  It is past time to 'open the books' and shed light on these uncharted waters we find ourselves in...if for no other reason, than to stop as a country being so 'delusional and in denial' about what has and is taking place in our country:  That the Federal Reserve, as Joe Stiglize recently said, is 'fully corrupted system' and if we do not have the courage to stop this 'Oligarchy Shock Doctrine' from continuing, then in the end, we will be lost as a Democracy and as a Republic.  We have a choice: we can sit and do nothing, or we can demand that President Obama stand up and tell us, whose side he is on:  Main Street or Wall Street.

                ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

                by Badabing on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 01:52:56 PM PDT

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            •  Congress, both too powerful and too weak. (8+ / 0-)

              It's a fun game.  When we don't like something, we can blame Congress.  The rest of the time we can carp about how Congress never gets anything done.  How conveeeenient.

              It has been a long, sad time since Congress set policy.  They don't even approve wars anymore.

              Legal chicanery and pitch darkness were the banker's stoutest allies. -1939

              by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 03:03:59 PM PDT

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              •  I always love your comments geomoo...you have (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis, nippersdad

                amazing insight and always hit the bulls eye, right in the center.

                Thanks.

                ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

                by Badabing on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 03:24:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you most kindly. That means a lot. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Badabing, nippersdad

                  And thanks for covering the most important issue we face.

                  Legal chicanery and pitch darkness were the banker's stoutest allies. -1939

                  by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 03:28:23 PM PDT

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                  •  Just cuz I have to say this ... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ksingh, Badabing, Arza

                    SilverOz must be a paid shill. He totes the Wall Street-powers that be line all the friggin time. I see that name and I gag. I've watched for more than 2 years. I don't believe for a minute that his/her comments are worth a hill of beans.

                    •  Thanks for the heads-up. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Badabing

                      It can take a while to get that, because such shills typically sound authoritative and offer "facts."  One defining characteristic I've notices, on display here, is the tendency to show up at the top of the comments section with attempts to add uncertainty and ambiguity to the debate.  Much appreciated, JuliaAnn.  I don't think you are violating any rules in offering your opinion so modestly.

                      Legal chicanery and pitch darkness were the banker's stoutest allies. -1939

                      by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 04:44:31 PM PDT

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                      •  Julia Ann and geomoo: I think we all know by now (6+ / 0-)

                        the repeated 'Wall Street Trolls' who come on here consistently, and I will not 'name them' but everyone knows who they are...

                        They always try to do a few things:

                        Distract the present argument/debate by putting out this single meme:

                        You are a Ron Paul person, a nut case, and a conspiracy theorist.....none of which is ever proven by backed up facts...

                        I worked my ass off for Obama, and despite what some people believe, will continue to support him, until I know better........I keep waiting and holding his feet to the fire.......but I have to admit, he is losing ground with me......

                        These same group of people that come onto Kos, always protect Wall Street and the Federal Reserve, not by offering true debate and arguments of substance, but by always saying that 'Geithner and Bernanke' saved our country from a great calamity, which nothing could be more from the truth.

                        What they saved, was Wall Street/the Banks, which have turned right around and have been allowed to screw our economy into oblivion.  

                        Just look at our nation.  The 'results' are very clear as to 'who won, and who lost'.  There cannot be any clearer argument than reality.  

                        America was literally 'driven off the cliff' by those that President Obama is now 'seeking to protect'.....

                        I wish, more than anyone that this was not so, but actions speak louder than words.  

                        Most of the people on Kos, because of a few dedicated progressives and 'truth tellers' refuse to allow the 'trolls' to Ron Paul us to death, and call us all 'conspiracy theorists' know what has happened to our nation.  

                        Thanks to the great and amazing work of so many decent and honest people on the financial blogs, we have learned the 'truth' no matter how ugly it is.

                        This gives me a great deal of strength and hope to continue this fight, because, facts matter...and regardless of how certain 'hired hands' try to deflect the truth, now that this is all out in the open by people like William K. Black, Simon Johnson, Dean Baker and Joe Stiglitz, there is no 'going back' or pretending that this is about Ron Paul.  

                        This is not about Ron Paul, who I do not support.  This is about a devastating catastrophe of an epic cover up to allow the 'status quo' to prevail.

                        We must, now more than ever support people like Elizabeth Warren, Neil Barofsky and even those that were discredited:  Eliot Spitzer....because what we have before us is a modern day 'Pentagon Papers with Watergate to boot' that is being played as a conspiracy theory............and thank god, that people on DailyKos know better.

                        ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

                        by Badabing on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 05:50:56 PM PDT

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                    •  I Don't Agree With Silver Oz A Lot (3+ / 0-)

                      I do this time. Congress is just as much to blame for this as anybody. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank did nothing but fellate Alan Greenspan every time he showed up on the hill. I know because I watched most of these appearances over the years.

                      Even when it was clear the whole house of cards was blowin' up in our faces in 2007, there were no serious questions asked or answered beyond those by Bernie Sanders (who was remarkably prescient about what the outcome was going to be).

                      Congress sat on its hands and let all of this happen, and the reason why is simple, Ratigan said it, money.

                      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                      by superscalar on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 05:24:14 PM PDT

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                      •  that is true...they are all complicit...but that (5+ / 0-)

                        does not give credence to where we are today and what we must do about it.

                        Just because 'all the other kids did it' does not mean driving the car off the cliff, should not be addressed with strong push back.

                        I have often said, that our two party is really a one party system....that President Obama, as Candidate Obama are two entirely different people, and I believe that is what most Democrats are so deeply cynical about now.

                        Regardless.....we must not allow ourselves to play into the new 'Blue Dog' give America away to the Corporations, and Wall Street, that in the end, will leave us in the 'dust' .............living in tent cities........because we gave up and refused to fight.

                        Remember this: our grandparents and parents, never gave up.  Many of them, including my grandfather lost his life as an Irishman in a police riot, for a fare wage and a right to the American dream.

                        We have passed a few generations now, that have forgotten how we managed to sacrifice our lives, and ancestors for the right to dignity, and guess what?

                        They are taking that away again, and pretending to be Democrats, the party of the 'working class'...nothing could be further from the truth.

                        ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

                        by Badabing on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 05:59:41 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  Commodity futures prices (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing, ozsea1

          intersect the spot market price at contract expiration. Spot market prices are determined by the underlying supply/demand/price oil. The only way to manipulate the price of oil is to have some capacity to hold it off the market (i.e., to keep it in the ground), which is what OPEC does.

          There are just 10 kinds of people; those who know binary and those who don't.

          by RudiB on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 11:49:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, this is completely wrong (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sanuk, DarkestHour

            futures prices absolutely do determine spot prices.  Futures are a broad term that also include the current contract and the spot price is directly affected by what is going on in the futures markets.  Look at oil for example, it went to 150/barrel not on current supply/demand, but on future speculation, then went to 30/barrel as speculative positions were unwound and is now back up to 85/barrel without a significant change in current supply/demand from the level it was at when it traded at 30/barrel.

            •  Absolutely right, or I couldn't make a living (5+ / 0-)

              as an energy economist.

              First of all, the spot price of oil has never been $150/bbl. Future prices have been that high, but the sap who took a long position at $150 probably lost his shirt when he had to unload for about half as much.

              Here's a chart of historical spot prices.

              As you can also see in the annotated chart, significant shifts in the spot price are influenced by changes in supply (typically OPEC actions or war) and demand (the world economic picture).

              Please agree with me that there is relatively little storage in the system (a few hundred million bbls, or so) except for keeping oil in the ground. It's going to follow from Econ-101 that price is set by short-term supply and short-term demand. The fact that short-term demand is relatively inelastic accounts for much of the spot price-volatility. Volatility in the futures market, otoh, is a function of the hopes and fears of speculators. It won't affect you, assuming you refrain from buying/selling oil futures.

              There are just 10 kinds of people; those who know binary and those who don't.

              by RudiB on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 12:36:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  with his team (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greeseyparrot, Badabing

      And now "his team" is back in charge and running things the same old way. In spite of the change we were told we were going to get.

      The Gramm legislation, which permitted the merger of investment and commercial banks into too-big-to-fail corporations (including Citigroup and AIG, two financial giants that had to be bailed out by taxpayers), was thought by Obama the candidate to be a key cause of the meltdown. But as president he reappointed the Clinton-era officials who had sided with Gramm in ending sensible banking regulations that had protected the public for 70 years and made the U.S. banking system the envy of the world.

      Rather than restore Glass-Steagall, the Obama-backed banking regulation bill passed last month by the Democratic majority in the House went along with the desire of Wall Street lobbyists to prevent the breakup of the big conglomerates and to block control of their massive trading in the derivatives that proved to be so toxic.

      http://www.commondreams.org/...

      Bipartinship means "Yes we can! As long as the Republicans agree to let us."

      by William Domingo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 03:10:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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