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View Diary: Wither the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell? (66 comments)

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  •  True. Not many non-Gay Progressives seem to care- (3+ / 0-)

    ...all that much. Generally speaking, I think they want us ON the bus -- if that helps the broader agenda -- but I get the sense that most wouldn't hesitate to throw us UNDER it if they felt we in any way threaten any of "this week's" priorities. Witness all of the "wait a week!" cries when Choi went to the fence.

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    by Larry Bailey on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 11:54:31 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I don't believe that (0+ / 0-)

      Lots of progressives put tons of effort against Prop 8, against the Maine referendum, etc.

      Their just needs to be some serious organizational effort, and that should come from gay-rights organizations, and that hasn't happened (except, perhaps, for the Courage Campaign in CA)

      •  I don't know if its what the commenter meant (3+ / 0-)

        But what I got out of it was that non-Gay Progressives don't seem to care that much about DADT specifically.

        Hell, I'm beginning to believe that non-military Gay Progressives don't care all that much either.

        I don't think its anything malicious; rather, I think that it is simply a case of people too many steps removed from an issue to make it tangible.  I know a lot of Progressive Straight vets for whom DADT is an important issue, but I've talked to a few gay people who felt it was low man on the totem pole in the broader context of gay rights.

        Its easy for everyone to empathize with marriage equality, by contract, its much harder to empathize to open military service.

        •  You're right in that 1st sentence, but I think... (4+ / 0-)

          ...not right about non-military Gay Progressives not caring all that much -- after all, a million of us (OK, Park Police said 400K) marched on DC in '93 to tear down that first wall against Gay Equality.

          We were torpedoed that year by a fellow named Sam Nunn (the allegedly Democratic US Senator from Georgia -- who I hope goes out of this life with no small measure of infamy for his bigotry). He joined with the Repugs and Colin Powell to thwart President Clinton's courageous initiative and in fact, helped make sure the outcome would be the current system of Gay service personnel being forced to live a lie.

          Plenty of us non-military Gays care deeply about the issue; after all, it's only the first of 3 walls we've got to tear down. When it goes, the other 2 will be much easier.

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          by Larry Bailey on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:28:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  ahem..."not many NON-GAY Progresssives... n/t (1+ / 0-)
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        by Larry Bailey on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:06:48 PM PDT

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    •  Amen to this comment, LB. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larry Bailey, Richard Lyon

      Actually I took a week away from DKos for exactly the reasons you just stated in that comment. The infuriating thing is that these Progressives do not see delaying getting rid of things like DOMA or DADT as delaying justice. They see it merely as those annoying Gays trying to undermine the President or Congressional Democrats when all we want is our respect, rights, and equality to Heterosexual American citizens. The very things espoused in the Democratic party's platform and promised to us during President Obama's 2008 campaign.

      The fact that many members here at DKos both Gay and Straight alike have that mindset hurts me a lot.

      •  We get a lot of lip service... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, Liberalindependent28

        ...of the old-fashioned type, from our Democratic compatriots. They want us to have our equality, but it not being their own equality, they're just fine with us getting our equality anytime in the foreseeable future -- or beyond. Well beyond.

        It no longer hurts me to notice that. I've been around for a long time and I know our non-Gay Dem pals have their hearts in the right place, but they DO NOT have their hearts in our struggle. The hypocrisy of that pisses me off, so I try to shame them by reminding them that they toot themselves as uber-Progressive while in effect supporting laws that that discriminate against their own friends.

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        by Larry Bailey on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:18:49 PM PDT

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        •  This is a wonderful comment yet again. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larry Bailey, jpmassar

          I guess I'm still really naive about it all. I'm a 23 year old from Illinois who proudly called himself a Democrat and voted nearly all Democratic in 2008 (did not vote R at all). It was my first Presidential election, and my heart was stronger then what my mind worried about that ended up being true: words and actions are two very different things.

          What you wrote about are things I'm still learning to come to terms with so that I can more effectively advocate within this framework of Liberal and generally Democratic dismissiveness of LGBT people. They get angry when we say the truth because they understand our pain while simultaneously excusing the Democrats in power for turning away our community in policy matters. On some level they know doing this is wrong/perpetuates these injustices, but they do it anyway.

    •  Look (0+ / 0-)

      Choi's timing was dumb.  I totally and completely admire the man, but it was dumb.

      Doing it at the very apex of the fever pitch over health care reform????

      And there was a call to go and make calls to Pelosi a week ago on Friday to encourage her to bring ENDA to a vote.  Friday, two days before the biggest vote of her life.

      People need to have some common sense.

      •  With all due respect, Gay people have heard (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larry Bailey, Richard Lyon

        this before. There is never a good time for the Democrats to move on our civil rights. There is another policy issue that is more important, we are deemed too "controversial" to have our issues considered, and there is always elections that they need to win. This deference is getting worn in its reasoning for keeping this bigotry enshrined into law.

        So, they could not have passed the Military Enhancement and Readiness Act in 2009? They were debating healthcare in the Congress, but seemed to debate and pass many other things to. These excuses are ridiculous, and Lt. Choi was right to do what he did and the time that he did.

        •  With all due respect (0+ / 0-)

          this has nothing to do with the issues you are talking about.  I'm just talking about maximizing the effectiveness of one's effort.

          Choi wanted maximal publicity and press coverage.  That's one of the prime reasons to do something like he did.  He didn't get it because health care was reaching a fever pitch.  Bad very-short-term tactic.

          And why would anyone announce a campaign for ENDA calls for the day when the Congressional phone lines were likely to be jammed and the answering machines full?

          Just doesn't make any sense.

      •  Frankly my dear (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, Liberalindependent28

        I don't give a damn.

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