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View Diary: Misogyny: The Real Root of Opposition to Late Abortion (99 comments)

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  •  well, isn't that where we are right now, really? (9+ / 0-)

    people who don't want an abortion can simply not have one

    but that's not what they want - they don't want anyone to have the right - not at ANY point in their pregnancy - fetal development lines will not matter to them

    "We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!" - The Shoveler

    by Pandoras Box on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 08:23:54 AM PDT

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    •  Where we are is not where we're getting pushed. (0+ / 0-)

      I want to sink some pylons to keep us anchored here at the very least.

      I fear that like the surrender on gun control, we'll soon surrender on abortion rights.  Establishing some scientific basis for policy in law ay help prevent that from happening.

      Progressive -> Progress; Conservative -> Con

      by nightsweat on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 08:37:29 AM PDT

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      •  Well, I would like to believe that (5+ / 0-)

        making a scientific decision would have any influence on people with extreme anti-choice positions, but since their argument is and essentially has to be religion-based, I don't see it as having any.

        I do agree that we're getting pushed, I just don't think the pushing will stop...ever

        "We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!" - The Shoveler

        by Pandoras Box on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 08:45:41 AM PDT

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      •  No it won't. Let's have some reality here. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        Stupak needed an executive order to make him feel like a big man, with a big dick, acceptable to the Catholic Bishops. Establishing any laws will only go backwards.

        There is a southern state, TN, I think, that wants to put abortion data on the web. Enough data so people can figure out who the woman is.

        Google abortion rights web sites for more examples.

        ELECT BETTER POLITICIANS: NOTIFY DNCC AND INCUMBENTS, WHEN YOU DONATE AND WORK. PRAGMATIC PROGRESSIVES; THE CAT FOR CHANGE.

        by CuriousBoston on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 08:45:59 AM PDT

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      •  Actually, in thinking about this more (7+ / 0-)

        I think setting an actual milestone could be ahuge mistake. What if the milestone chosen turns out to be incorrect in some way, like maybe the embryo passes that particular milestone much earlier than previously believed? Or what if it turns out that embryos removed before the time that milestone occurs can survive without their mothers?

        Wouldn't either of those scenarios be much more damaging to the pro-choice stance? ("If they're wrong about this, what else are they wrong about?") I shudder to think what the media would do with something like that.

        The argument I find most compelling is that everyone should have 100% control of their body, even if their 100% control puts another life at risk. This is the very basis of the notion of self-defense. (And let's not kid ourselves-- carrying a pregnancy to term is not a risk-free proposition.) Just as I cannot be legally compelled to donate a kidney to save another person's life, I should not be compelled to serve as an unwilling incubator to save a clump of cells.

        "As for what is not true, you will always find abundance in the newspapers." --Thomas Jefferson

        by wide eyed lib on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 08:59:22 AM PDT

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        •  We're already beyond 100% control (0+ / 0-)

          Just going right to "Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose".

          Progressive -> Progress; Conservative -> Con

          by nightsweat on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 09:12:29 AM PDT

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          •  Beyond 100% control? (0+ / 0-)

            Doesn't make sense to me. Please explain.

            ELECT BETTER POLITICIANS: NOTIFY DNCC AND INCUMBENTS, WHEN YOU DONATE AND WORK. PRAGMATIC PROGRESSIVES; THE CAT FOR CHANGE.

            by CuriousBoston on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 10:54:04 AM PDT

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            •  You already don't have 100% control of your body (0+ / 0-)

              You can't do everything you want to do with it.

              Progressive -> Progress; Conservative -> Con

              by nightsweat on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 11:56:55 AM PDT

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              •  ??? What can't I do? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                ELECT BETTER POLITICIANS: NOTIFY DNCC AND INCUMBENTS, WHEN YOU DONATE AND WORK. PRAGMATIC PROGRESSIVES; THE CAT FOR CHANGE.

                by CuriousBoston on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 12:55:01 PM PDT

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                •  Swing your arm where my nose is. (0+ / 0-)

                  Ingest substances the government has decided are bad for you.

                  Try to destroy the integrity of your body (i.e. commit suicide).

                  Progressive -> Progress; Conservative -> Con

                  by nightsweat on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 01:38:10 PM PDT

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                  •  that argument doesn't hold up (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharoney

                    for pregnancy.  we're not talking about some wild-eyed crazy person who wants to do whatever they feel like

                    Can someone force YOU to donate a kidney? or some other organ?  of course not...pregnancy is like donating ALL your organs so another being can survive, even if temporarily.  a woman should have a right to choose NOT to do this... and if she doesn't have that control what is next?  will the pregnancy police start rounding them up watching their every move to be sure they don't ingest something which might be deleterious to the health of the developing child?

                    "We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!" - The Shoveler

                    by Pandoras Box on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 02:42:56 PM PDT

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                    •  You bounce between extremes here (0+ / 0-)

                      First I'm being unreasonable because we're not talking about wild-eyed women who will do whatever they want then we're talking about pregnancy police rounding up women?

                      Those are both ridiculous. You've already said you don't mind the restrictions in place currently on extremely late term abortions so why then assert this mythical right to do whatever you want whenever you want however you want.

                      Progressive -> Progress; Conservative -> Con

                      by nightsweat on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 06:28:38 AM PDT

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                      •  bull - i am not bouncing at all (0+ / 0-)

                        where did i assert

                        this mythical right to do whatever you want whenever you want however you want

                        ?

                        i am, and have been, saying that a woman should be entitled to privacy in her medical decisions, including abortion

                        you said we already don't have 100% right to do whatever we want to ourselves and I ask where do you draw THAT line.

                        You think pregnancy police is ridiculous.  You do know this is already happening, right?

                        http://www.time.com/...

                        http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

                        http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/...

                        "We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!" - The Shoveler

                        by Pandoras Box on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 12:18:20 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

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