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View Diary: RKBA: Why I think its a liberal position (283 comments)

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  •  See this is why (7+ / 0-)

     how nice for you. & because everyone with a gun will only use them to defend themselves & we can be absolutely certain that all gun owners are responsible type folk possessed

    I tell anti-selfdefense people that they are bigots.
    You just made a blanket, unfounded assumption about someone you don't know based on your own fears and prejudices.
    That is bigotry by definition.

    •  i am "anti-self defense" based on what? (0+ / 0-)

      i didn't make a blanket assumption about anyone. i made the blanket assumption about everyone. the same assumption second amendment absolutists make.
      you are very cavalier with the way you toss around the word "bigot." you may want to do a little self reflection, it would seem to be a fixable character flaw.

      Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

      by rasbobbo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:04:33 AM PDT

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      •  You are incorrect. (6+ / 0-)

        And how do you define second amendment absolutist? I think we have one in our group that says the government doesn't have any right to regulate firearms at all.

        We need another Huey P. Long and federal funding for abortion. -9.00, -4.05

        by KVoimakas on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:06:22 AM PDT

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        •  yeah, i would say that one is a 2nd amendment (0+ / 0-)

          absolutist & i am somewhat surprised there is only one in your group because it is an attitude i hear all the time - that the government has NO rights to restrict gun ownership.

          Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

          by rasbobbo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:18:21 AM PDT

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          •  From who though? (6+ / 0-)

            Are they mostly right wingers? Teabaggers? Conservatives?

            We are not them.

            We need another Huey P. Long and federal funding for abortion. -9.00, -4.05

            by KVoimakas on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:20:03 AM PDT

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            •  from all across the political spectrum. (4+ / 0-)

              i live in tucson, az. i know & have known a great many gun nuts, er, firearms enthusiasts in  my brief 60 years on the planet. many are very dear friends of mine. some are hunters, some like to plink cans in the desert, some just like to have guns & some think they actually need guns because, well, it's pretty scary out there. quite a few of these folks think that their right to own a firearm is tied up in an absolute right to own & that the government has no right to register, or even know that that they own. it is not uncommon, at least out here.

              Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

              by rasbobbo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:32:35 AM PDT

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              •  Also on this point, (6+ / 0-)

                some think they actually need guns because, well, it's pretty scary out there.

                You've got to admit that here in some ways it has gotten scary out there.

                How many Home Invasion/Takedown attacks have happened here in the last couple of years, too many and way more than there used to be though very recent stats show a trend down thank Ghu.

                Years ago when I first moved here, it was much more mellow. There wasn't the screeching hysteria about migrants and it was a pretty peaceful place for what's basically a border town.

                As the border enforcement and the acendence of the Tancredo types has progressed, the value of the cargo has increased. be that humans or a load of Oaxacan smoke. Once the money became real esp in the human smuggling trade, the violence upped a few notches.

                Now in the hills above my house, the Bajadores are robbing the migrants and the mules at gunpoint, sometimes throwing in some kidnapping and the occasional rape or killing.

                Once these loads started getting hit in earnest, the obvious reaction on the smugglers side was to arm themselves and fight back.

                In the past mules never had guns as the penalties were so much more severe than just walking in dope. Now the groups are "protected" by cartel sicarios and there was the predictable rise in retaliatory attacks on homes as well as just robberies looking for cash and drugs.

                Lately their aim seems quite off as a lot of the victims don't appear to be players . That in itself imo in this area of the country is a perfectly valid reason for keeping and bearing.

                More than one of these home invasions has been thwarted by armed and ready home owners. Even little Brisenia's mother managed to return fire wounding one of the attackers, Bush iirc, and thus leave proof in the vehicle and the scumbags body. Unfortunately, too many of the scumbags succeed completely like the recent San Joaquin and Bopp rd attack, so far seemingly another case of the idiots hitting the wrong house..  

                The Cartel wars are slowly moving north, unfortunately, I don't think it will end soon......

                •  maybe, maybe not. every generation has its (0+ / 0-)

                  boogie men & lament about how things are so much worse than whenever. i don't know where you live, maybe it is real scary there. i'm thinking if your door gets kicked in by a few masked men with weapons drawn, you're pretty much fucked no matter where. in my mind it is a good reason to try & rein in some of the loose weapons out there.
                  my experience with folks who pack is that it is more of an affectation than an actual exercise in self defense. my brother's father-in-law used to take a big damn six shooter with him to get from tucson country club around the corner to jeff's pub & then plant it on the bar in front of him. the woman across the street from me had her son move in with her & for several weeks we had this 35 year old skin head with an automatic strapped to his hip walking the neighborhood. for some reason, that didn't make me feel more secure.
                  if there is another meetup here you should come, i've got a couple of dozen stories about people who liked to carry & the relative effectiveness of it.

                  Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

                  by rasbobbo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 03:01:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  my area may be more dangerous than most but (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    rockhound, KVoimakas, theatre goon

                    I also have layers of defense in the critter alarm systems. Unfortunately, 'yotes just got my geese so I'm looking for a few more. The guineas are great alarms and actually so are chickens if disturbed. The donkeys honk off at anyone they don't recognize and on top of it my door is quite a ways from the street. Add in the dogs and anyone coming in here would raise enough ruckus to wake the dead let alone alert me to their presence.

                    It's tough to get to town anymore with gas prices and such. I generally go once a month for groceries and stuff.

                    I do want to get to one of the meet ups though or even a Drinking Liberally, That's still at the Shanty on 4th isn't it? I'll try one of these times.

                  •  heh, Jeff's Pub, man that was a lot of years ago (4+ / 0-)

                    I spent more than one happy afternoon/evening there. Even shot in a pool league against them probably 16-18 years ago.

                    As to the "skinhead" was he sporting the Docs and the white pride tatts or was he just a bald dude with a gun?

                    Cause I'm a dfh, long ass hair and all, don't dress well (for some tastes, I like it) and rarely shave though I do try to trim up the beard every so often. Pretty much a nice guy though and about as far from a nazi skin (there are different types of skins you know) philosophically as you can get.  However, I'm just as likely as not to have an "automatic" strapped on my hip. Unless it's a revolver kind of day.........

                    Usually doesn't seem to bother those I encounter when out.  I actually had an older lady at Safeway comment how she had been thinking of getting a gun and we had a nice conversation about the idea and utility for her. That seems to be a more average reception I get if anyone even notices.

                    I guess I just don't understand why you would feel a loss of security in such a case. Rarely is a criminal going to open carry. Heck cops use possession of a holster as a quick determiner of intent, good or bad. Criminals don't carry holsters as they're a pita to ditch when running from the cops and when you're wearing the holster, it's hard to deny the gun in the bush.

                    •  you've got the general look down. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buddabelly

                      combat boots, cutoff fatigues, most typically shirtless. no swastikas or anything untoward among his tats though.
                      why does the presence of guns make me feel less secure? they have a nasty habit of going "POP!" & then someone is bleeding, someone who may be totally unconnected to anything that went down. in the case of the guy across the street, i didn't know him & what i knew of him in his teenage years was less than reassuring.
                      when you are openly strapped you are asking people to trust you. when you place a gun on a bar, you are asking for the same for a whole tavern full of people.
                      "i've got sudden death at my fingertips because i don't trust strangers, i'm a stranger, trust me."
                      i've only been to just this one meetup & i've never made it down to the shanty for drinking liberally, think it's first thursday of the month. not positive about that. i'm always interested in meeting kos folk. i'm a dfh myself.

                      Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

                      by rasbobbo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 08:46:46 PM PDT

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                      •  the gun on the bar thing was many moons ago here (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        rasbobbo, rockhound

                        it has to have been as those laws changed a long time ago.

                        I don't know the guy but imo it sounds more like a "Barbecue" gun kind of thing. Was the "big damn six shooter" a real pretty possibly engraved Single Action Army or something similar?

                        I've seen a lot of that kind of stuff at private functions but not in a bar or anywhere in public for 20 years or so.

                        Some people (mostly those who can afford it) will have the fancy rig with something like an engraved SAA or any custom/unique piece just for BBq's and such. Kinda like custom rims and stuff on a car.

                        Just for bragging rights.

                        Most of those guns see very few rounds through them.

                        •  dude was old guy who'd moved here from n.y. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          buddabelly

                          a long time ago & had cultivated a gabby hayes persona, boot, beard, western shirt & ridiculously large cowboy hat. i always thought of it as a wardrobe accessory, part of the pose.
                          when i asked him why he felt it necessary to arm himself for the expedition which involved; go through the gates, make a right, go down two streets, make a u-turn & park? he said, "snakes. you never know when you'll see one."

                          Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

                          by rasbobbo on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 08:18:33 PM PDT

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                          •  heh, I've met the type if not him, I'm hoping (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            rasbobbo

                            a trade I'm working on goes through and I'll have one to try to bbq out so to speak.

                            Hopefully if it works right I'll end up with a fairly old Ruger Blackhawk in .41 mag. A semi oddball as it's a 4 inch barrel and in real nice shape.

                            Then I'll add some pearl grips and a Bisley hammer and grip frame and start saving to pay an engraver......I do have a buddy that works in a custom plating shop and I could picture it nickled with silver and color case hardened accents......

          •  aren't you a Baja Zonie like I am? If so yes, (5+ / 0-)

            many of us tend to be a tad on the absolutist side. However that's a position supported by our Constitution as well as the Federal Constitution........

            Still waiting for the final vote on "Constitutional Carry"

            Brewer will sign as she's getting hit hard from the right.

            Sad to say it but the most sensible voice I've heard in recent politics here is from another republic gubernatorial candidate. Instead of wiping out AHCCCS for the working poor, add a co-pay and save the system for everyone. Not Buzz, the other republic, in office currently, can't remember the name at the moment. Goddard isn't showing much strength yet though.......

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