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View Diary: The (Jewish) NYT is Crucifying the Pope!? (145 comments)

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  •  It's Not Just the Times (5+ / 0-)

    ...I'm sure that the Holy See is just as unhappy with my buddhist, atheist, socialist, queer-friendly, sex-positive, anti-fascist, trade unionist, intellectual, anti-pedophiliac ass as they are with anyone at the Times.

    And more to the point, as was the case in Germany when Joey Ratz joined the Hitler Youth, he'd be happy to send those like me to the very same camps. The line from "one god" to "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer," is as clear as the light of day to anyone who is paying attention.

    It is not enough for Christians to preach against particular understandings of particular gospels. It is time for all sane humans to preach against the monotheistic desert heresies known as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all of which are poisoned at the root, poisoned in the branch, and poisoned in the fruit, as the history of each of these traditions makes transparently clear.

    •  There's a difference between the history (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Marja E

      of those great religions, and their underlying principles, philosophies and theologies.  

      Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      Hill? What hill? No one said there was going to be a hill . . . . Was there a sign?

      by Jersey Jon on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 02:47:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, (0+ / 0-)

        their underlying principles, philosophies and theologies

        seem to be the source of the three desert religions vast buffoonery.

      •  Says you. (1+ / 0-)
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        The number of ideas within the "underlying principles, philosophies and theologies" that are disgusting, inhumane, violent, and severely dangerous is legion. If one merely doesn't approach the subject with a preconceived bias in favor of carefully picking and choosing religious "principles, philosophies and theologies" on the sole grounds that they're congenial, your assertion is severely dubious.

        We billions of human beings have to live with the actual religions that the world actually contains. Fictional, Pollyanna conceptions of religion that cherry-pick (and skew) religious notions, on-the-ground reality be damned, in order to paint a cheery picture amount to little more than whistling past the graveyard. It is far, far from self-evident that the "underlying principles, philosophies and theologies" of the world's major religions are any less ugly than the history thereof.

        But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

        - Jesus, in Luke 19:27

        [T]here are several problems with such a defense of moderate religion. First, many moderates assume that religious "extremism" is rare and therefore not all that consequential. Happily, you [Andrew Sullivan] are not in this camp, but I would venture that you are in a minority among religious moderates. As you and I both know, religious extremism is not rare, and it is hugely consequential. Forty-four percent of Americans believe that Jesus will return to earth to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years. This idea is extreme in almost every sense--extremely silly, extremely dangerous, extremely worthy of denigration--but it is not extreme in the sense of being rare. [...]

        Second, many religious moderates imagine, as you do, that there is some clear line of separation between extremist and moderate religion. But there isn't. Scripture itself remains a perpetual engine of extremism: because, while He may be many things, the God of the Bible and the Qur'an is not a moderate. Read scripture more closely and you do not find reasons for religious moderation; you find reasons to live like a proper religious maniac--to fear the fires of hell, to despise nonbelievers, to persecute homosexuals, etc. Of course, one can cherry-pick scripture and find reasons to love one's neighbor and turn the other cheek, but the truth is, the pickings are pretty slim, and the more fully one grants credence to these books, the more fully one will be committed to the view that infidels, heretics, and apostates are destined to be ground up in God's loving machinery of justice.

        - Sam Harris, Debate with Andrew Sullivan

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