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View Diary: Porter Goss Blessed Destruction of CIA Videotapes After the Fact (73 comments)

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  •  CIA officials were willing to risk being (23+ / 0-)

    Following your link, Jesselyn

    As the ACLU states, "CIA officials were willing to risk being prosecuted for obstruction of justice in order to avoid being prosecuted for torture"

    and yet here we are now and still no prosecutions for obstruction of justice either.............

    Years later, prosecutor John Durham is still investigating whether any crime was committed.

    "These documents provide further evidence that senior CIA officials were willing to risk being prosecuted for obstruction of justice in order to avoid being prosecuted for torture," ACLU lawyer Ben Wizner said. "If the Department of Justice fails to hold these officials accountable, they will have succeeded in their cover-up."

    CIA spokesman George Little said the agency continues to cooperate with that investigation.

    "Teh economy will surge when teh Stoopid recedes. But teh Stoopid show no sign of recedin' yet." Horsefeathers psychic cat, SEER of ALL!

    by allenjo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 05:55:43 AM PDT

    •  Accessory after the fact? (31+ / 0-)

      If Porter Goss is willing to take the heat, I'd like to see the heat applied.  Obstruction of justice is a serious offense, and if Goss abetted the crime in his official government capacity, he damn well ought to go to jail.  As should a lot of people.

      But I've given up hoping for justice on this matter from the Obama administration.  It seems far more interested in continuing to commit similar crimes than in bringing to justice past ones.

      •  This is so depressing. (7+ / 0-)

        I know that I am going to be shred cell by cell for even noting this so let me say as a caveat; I am a lawyer, torture is a crime against humanity which the US has executed people for in the past and the use of torture by BushCo has made the world a more dangerous place and taken away all "moral authority" the US has AND I support bringing criminal charges against the HIGHEST ranking officials involved, up to President.

        The depressing thing is that the Obama Administration has not acted (YET), I believe that Holder WOULD act if there was a viable way to do so without tearing the country apart.

        Just yesterday we learned that roughly 20% of Americans still think Obama is not an American.  They have already threatened violence and in some incidences, acted upon it.  I just want to ask; How would the administration bring charges against Cheney (we all know he was the driving force) and have this country not tear itself apart?  I could not abide by "Show Trials" of the underlings ordered to do so, prosecuting them would be lawful but would compound the injustice.

        Like I said, it is so depressing.  I want someone to explain to me (I WANT to be wrong) how a prosecution of Cheney could sucessfully occur w/o the country sinking into violent semi-anarchy?  When innocent people die b/c "Patriot Movement" actions, will their death be a necessary evil in bringing about the proper rule of law?

        I think this country is too immature.  Too many still see the USA as infallible.  In short, I do not think that this country can handle the truth.  And it is damn depressing.  

        Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.

        by 4CasandChlo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 06:46:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This country cannot handle the lies (18+ / 0-)

          4CasandChlo, I respectfully disagree.

          Any country that hides from the truth of the worst of its action is engaged in continuing deception. A democracy must operate with full disclosure. Those who commit crimes must be held accountable. A country who cannot handle that can hardly be called a democracy, but would be nothing more than a banana republic.

          I do not think that this country can handle the truth.

          "Teh economy will surge when teh Stoopid recedes. But teh Stoopid show no sign of recedin' yet." Horsefeathers psychic cat, SEER of ALL!

          by allenjo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 06:53:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am tipping you, I agree with you; (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snoopydawg, allenjo, I love OCD

            I guess I didn't write the post well.  I want full disclosure, I want accountability, and I WANT prosecutions.  I want to know HOW it could happen.

            I am not a concern troll, look up my history.  I know that the easiest thing to do is scream loudly about the aweful, animalistic actions taken in our name, that will stain this country and US until it is brought to light, and I am screaming that.  Now, please, someone tell me how it gets done.

            Is the Special Prosecutor statute available?  How do we protect the process and the people involved?  Does the nation rally around justice when the first violent reactions occur?  Hopefully.  What happens when they plead privileges?  Take it to this SCOTUS?  Work in partnership with the International Criminal Court?

            I think we agree, I said the country cannot handle the truth and you said a democracy cannot survive w/o it.  Allenjo, we are close to saying the same thing, I respect what you wrote, tell me HOW we should go about it, with the least amount of danger to innocent people.

            Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.

            by 4CasandChlo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 07:43:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But will a country (4+ / 0-)

              survive? I don't think so. I wrote up thread that we have no liberties left, but the war criminals are still being protected.
              The only hope is that there is an investigation being run in the background, and one day, BOOM, arrests?

              Good dream I know.
              Sad too that someone who wants to write honestly about this is afraid of being HR'd or torn apart.
              I get that all the time now when I write the truth.
              Get HR'd enough when people don't like what I wrote, I lost my status.
              NYCEVE wrote a diary, Can DK handle the truth?  No, I don't think they can.
              We were sold a bill of goods with Obama. SO many things he promised were not delivered. Yes he did and does some good things, but not the big ones.
              The hospitalization thing was brave. If he delivers on finance reform that really works, I might change my mind.  
              But I cant get over how many innocent people we are killing in our names with his blessings.
              Kids especially.  

              The image of America will never again be the image of revolution, freedom and democracy, but the image of violence and militarism." MLK

              by snoopydawg on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 07:59:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  How did we survive the civil rights (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dallasdoc, allenjo

              movement in the 1960s? There was quite a lot of terrorism and killing that arose from the backlash. Yet the country survived and improved. I think that's your real answer.

            •  When I see comments in this thread that (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cybersaur, MichaelNY

              prosecutions will never happen, it would seem by saying so you can make it so. The old self fulfilling prohecy. I am not referring to yours but those below who say it will never happen. So do we all just give up on justice, give up on the rule of law, because President Obama wants to not look back?

              Is the DOJ still a political wing of the White House? I don't want to think so. But I am aghast about Holder's backtracking on civilian trails, because of the White House.

              This president states he wants to look forward, and many Dems rally behind that. I am not one of those.

              If Obama's first term ends and the nation has allowed all the Bush atrocites to be swept under the rug, then democracy has ended, and our view of our country will have changed forever.

              It is up to our Department of Justice and our Attorney General. And if Holder does not act, will it be because the White House will not allow it, and that Holder is a coward?

              Will we become a nation of cowards? Too scared to look at the most horrific of our actions because it is not politically popular? Will the Department of Justice become a joke? Or justice in the United States of America become a joke?

              I have so many questions, 4CasandChlo, and so few answers. I believed candidate Obama on sunshine and transparency, and so much of his rhetoric on the trail.

              We have to keep demanding accountability.

              "Teh economy will surge when teh Stoopid recedes. But teh Stoopid show no sign of recedin' yet." Horsefeathers psychic cat, SEER of ALL!

              by allenjo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 08:22:33 AM PDT

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        •  Lancing a boil (21+ / 0-)

          You give the argument for pardoning Richard Nixon, and that only gave us Ronald Reagan and Iran Contra, which bequeathed us the myriad felonies of the Bush II years.  

          When you have a boil festering in the body, there's nothing to do but lance it and drain away the poison.  Does it hurt?  Hell yes.  But it hurts a lot more the longer you avoid the inevitable.

          Are you old enough to remember the Watergate hearings?  Similar arguments to yours were made against holding them.  But once the country heard the evidence and saw what Nixon was up to, he had no choice but to resign in disgrace.  We haven't had the same courage since, and we suffer for our collective cowardice.

        •  That's the point of the right wing lies & excess. (11+ / 0-)

          They threaten groundlessly and continually to tear the country apart anyway. Every time the government caves to that threat instead of calling their bluff, they are rewarded and the excessive, irrational behavior is reinforced.

          The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

          by lotlizard on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 07:03:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm hoping that the upcoming NSA leak prosecution (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dallasdoc

          ... (see Glennzilla's take on the story) opens the door (via the back door of discovery) to prosecution (during Obama's second term) of the Bush administration's war criminals.

          I guess we'll know in 2013 whether or not my hopes meet reality.

        •  'The Country' is mostly numb (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not so sure that prosecution of torture will tear us apart.

          I'm thinking this is more like trying to defend the banksters.

          I suspect that the will / ability to generate outrage amongst the zombie hordes will be limited.

          Almost no one actually likes Dick Cheney.

          Here's hoping...

          It's time for the pitchforks and torches! Guillotines are way too complicated.

          by No one gets out alive on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 08:12:31 AM PDT

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        •  If the security forces of this country (0+ / 0-)

          are unable to maintain order while former officials are prosecuted for crimes under specific statutes, this country is already a de facto dictatorship. And if that's the case, it's probably even more necessary for the prosecutions to take place. But you don't really think this country would suddenly turn into someplace like post-invasion Iraq that has hundreds or thousands of suicide bombings, do you?

      •  Just so, Dallas doc, Just so. (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mattman, Dallasdoc, cybersaur, tbetz, jayden, J M F

        Obstruction of Justice, he damn well ought to go to jail!

        Obama administration.  It seems far more interested in continuing to commit similar crimes than in bringing to justice past ones.

        "Teh economy will surge when teh Stoopid recedes. But teh Stoopid show no sign of recedin' yet." Horsefeathers psychic cat, SEER of ALL!

        by allenjo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 06:49:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Heat? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, joe shikspack, allenjo

        You got it right.  What heat?

        Just think... even these amoral idiots realized that what they were doing was wrong enough to draw a ton of heat.  And then the Dems take power and what happens?

        No heat.  I'm sure they're mystified why nothing has happened.

        "Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse

        by gsbadj on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 07:17:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I personally had no choice in risking (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      J M F

      my being- nobody asked me!  >-)     How existential.  But with Sartre in mind, how's this for a description of the Bush presidency- "Being and Nothingness"?
      And yes, all of this crap we learn about them in hindsight fills me with Nausea.

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