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View Diary: "Honor" Killings: Two-Day Old Baby Girl Buried (329 comments)

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  •  A thought (4+ / 2-)

    Recently, more evidence has surfaced (as if there wasn't enough already) that the catholic church, at the highest levels, silently condones child rape. They cover it up, they excuse it, they allow it to continue. The molestation and rape of children. And Herr, as elsewhere, people get to say things like "the catholic church is evil" and get tons of recs for it. Yet if someone says Muslims are "evil" for their silent support of the subjucation of women and children, they're troll rated into oblivion. Why?  What makes Islam so special, that we make excuses for their evil, while condeming all Catholics as cultist brainwashed pedophiles?  Frankly, I've read and studied the Koran, and the teachings and sayings of Mohammed, and I do believe them to be evil. Flat-out murderous psychotic evil. Will I get HRed for that opinion, by those who haven't read these inhuman rantings?  Will the fact that I'm an atheist make my position more, or less, respected?  At any rate, why must we persist with the double standard that catholic extremists are "the norm", and Muslim extremists are just confused about the "religion of peace"?  It makes no sense to me at all.  

    "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

    by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:02:06 PM PDT

    •  Well maybe because the Catholic church is a churc (6+ / 0-)

      while Islam, is a religion.  See how that works.  Sunni, Shia, is only the very basics, there are different "churches"sects, factions, and so on.  Do you know there is one sect/religious organization, that allows women to wear mini skirts?  There are sects where woman can be Imams?  You know some Christian sects won't let women preach.  Sigh, you can't compare Islam and the Catholic church, maybe you can compare the Catholic church to some sects but not to a whole religion.

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:08:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But that's not really the point (3+ / 0-)

        I was raised Catholic.  My family has several Catholic educators, priests, and nuns.  My daughter is baptized Catholic.  But I make no excuses for the problems of that church, nor the dark side of Christianity.  

        The fact that two people (so far) HRed my comment about my feelings on the Koran kind of proves my point.  At no point did I say Islam was evil, or Muslims were evil.  I have Muslims in my family and among my close friends, as I do Mormons and Jews and Scientologists and a hundred other faiths.  I certainly don't believe these people are "evil".  But the books the religions are based on?  Yes, I believe there is a real evil in creating make-believe stories designed to enslave people's minds.  Nearly all successful religions have elements in their texts that are ludicrously, laughably evil, at least by modern standards.  It's time we stop hiding from this fact, and acknowledge some of the really scary shit that's in these documents.  Religious people refer to their holy scriptures as infallible, and yet few of a religion's adherents would actually sanction the type of crazy bloodshed these scriptures call for, from stoning to death a woman who was raped, to beheading someone who insults the faith, etc.  

        So why can't I say the books are, in fact, evil?  If Republicans passed a bill making Leviticus provisions law, and all of a sudden women had to sleep outside in the cold when they had their period, would I be HRed for calling it evil?  

        "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

        by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:29:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look I may agree w/some of what you said (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lazybum

          but Muslims do not equal Roman Catholics.  Also, the whole infallibility thing isn't necessarily believed by all people, or all various religious sects.  Going back in history there was numerous versions of Christianity (perhaps more than even now).  There is a historical school of thought for question Islamic laws (it is complicated the term is "ijtihad").

          You can say some books are evil all you want to, but that isn't really what you said.  Let us not forget the nuance okay?

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:39:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Also, my husband is a Catholic (0+ / 0-)

          he was taught (at Catholic schools)'to think of the Bibles as allegorical.  Also, if Republicans made that type of law it would be unconstitutional, that is sorta a straw man.

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:43:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  So is Plato's Republic evil for advocating (6+ / 0-)

          dictatorship by a so-called "philosopher king"? That has been used as the justification by people supporting absolutist monarchy throughout history.

          And see, this just isn't factual:

          Yes, I believe there is a real evil in creating make-believe stories designed to enslave people's minds.

          Who is trying to enslave anyone else's mind? The Qur'an draws on a body of mythology common to Christians, Jews, and people who belonged to neither of those religions in order to make arguments about how people should strive to live in a just society. Like what friggin every other moral philosopher has done throughout history. And some moral philosophers' ideas end up becoming a kind of dogma. That doesn't mean they were "creating make-believe stories designed to enslave people's minds".

          ORGANIZE early, ORGANIZE often.

          by bicycle Hussein paladin on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:44:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You know I see people saying that religous people (0+ / 0-)

      like to be ignorant, and then I see comments, where people clearly do not know about certain subjects, and I wonder is that because that like being ignorant.

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:09:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The heirarchy of the RCC (6+ / 0-)

      knowingly serves to protect the criminal actions of it's employees; so it's not quite the same thing, is it?

      Your statement:

      "while condeming all Catholics as cultist brainwashed pedophiles?" is a canard - I've never seen a poster say that here, and he or she did, they would be torn to ribbons in an instant.  

      Inflammatory and ridiculous characterizations like this

      "Frankly, I've read and studied the Koran, and the teachings and sayings of Mohammed, and I do believe them to be evil. Flat-out murderous psychotic evil."

      are grounds for banning.

      You have been reported to the administrators.

      •  All these years we've been at war w/ Muslim (4+ / 0-)

        countries, you would think that people would have looked up something about Islam, by now.  

        GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

        by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:11:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's easier to hate, and not learn. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shhs, bicycle Hussein paladin

          Most human beings seem to typically resist learning, unless there's "something in it for them". Kids are conditioned, bribed, cajoled into learning. Some do it because they grow to like it.

          Sadly too many adults are already set in their ways; if one doesn't have a natural proclivity to be curious in the search for truth, one will fabricate a truth that matches what ever narrative tickles their fancy.

          •  ...and then suppress viewpoints..... (0+ / 0-)

            ...that don't match that narrative.

            You make a good point.

            If you hate government, don't run for office.

            by Bensdad on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:22:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bigotry is not a valid viewpoint, it's bias. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DeepLooker

              It making prejudgments based upon ignorance.

              Like when Tea Baggers call Obama a Kenyan, or claim he's a socialist or a communist. Those aren't valid viewpoints, either.

              •  Unfortunately...... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CherryTheTart

                ....some use the term "bigotry" as an excuse for blanket suppression of speech that is critical of fundamentalist expressions of religion.

                While I agree that "bigotry" is not a "valid viewpoint", it is not, in fact, a viewpoint at all, but the refusal to entertain other viewpoints.

                Ironically, although the term "bigotry"  has been used a lot in this thread, there is an argument that when someone ruthlessly hide-rates comments they don't like (as opposed to comments that are hide-ratable under the rules), they are expressing a form of resistance to divergent viewpoints that is nothing more than a form of bigotry itsself. After all, bigotry is the intolerance of views other than your own.

                Such a shame and a very high irony. There is a higher ground. Take it.

                If you hate government, don't run for office.

                by Bensdad on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:27:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  How can that possibly be grounds for banning? (4+ / 0-)

        I mean, I'm not going to claim to be some sort of exalted expert, but I do have a lowly minor in religious studies and have indeed read and studied the Koran and Hadith.  I am most certainly within my rights to believe that these texts are evil, as they promote bigotry, intolerance, murder, and hate.  They really, honestly do, in my opinion.  I believe you can make the same argument of most religious texts, which is what led me me to oppose religion altogether.  But "banning" for a personal opinion about "holy texts" which glorify bloodshed?  What the hell kind of Democrat are you?

        "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

        by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:18:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you have a minor in religious studies (0+ / 0-)

          why did you compare Muslims, to Roman Catholics?

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:21:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That wasn't the point (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CherryTheTart, erush1345

            The majority of Christians worldwide ARE Catholics.  We happen to live in one of the few countries in which protestant religions have gained a decent foothold, but so what.  My comment was about the religious texts, and Catholics and protestants share the same religious texts.  Muslims share the same religious texts as well.  There are many elements of the Old and New Testaments which, by modern standards, are indeed quite evil.  There are many elements of the Koran and the Hadith which, again by modern standards, are indeed quite evil.  With most historic documents, we can put certain things in context.  But with religion, it's different, because Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike all believe their holy texts are sacred and, at least of varying degrees, represent the true and uncorrupted word of God.  Yet when you read these texts, you are struck with an overwhelming sense of "holy crap - they're promoting rape, murder, and genocide" and there's just no way to get around it.  The whole "well, uh, these stories are metaphors" only goes so far.  The only reason we tolerate this level of evil being promoted as "good" is because we were taught to respect religion in a different way than we respect other beliefs.  Well, WHY?  I fail to understand how any modern society can tolerate or excuse the level of bloodthirsty evil that soaks the "infallible" texts of the largest world religions.  Now, this opinion has nothing to do with the morals of the practitioners of these faiths, anymore than I'd claim someone who enjoyed Roman Polanski's "The Pianist" means they support statutory rape.  But come on.  I get HRed because I say the text of the Koran and the collected teachings of Mohammed do, indeed, contain some pretty evil shit?  Could any rational, educated person seriously deny such an assertion?  I am absolutely baffled why it's okay to make fun of fundamentalist Christians, Mormons, Scientologists, etc., but Islam is in a special protected holier-than-thou class in which no criticism can be permitted.  Mind-blowing, really.

            "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

            by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:42:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, it is all that simple (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lazybum

              you know protestants (all of them) share the same Bible as Catholics,  there aren't any Protestant sects that believe the King James Version of the Bible is the only true version. Let's not even talk about Orthodox churches...

              There are 1 billion Catholics, and all of those Catholics all the same none of them do a little extra on the side.

              I think you paint w/a very broad brush.  That's really the issue.

              GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

              by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:47:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  come back to me when you are talking about (0+ / 0-)

              sects, and different Muslim scholars.

              GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

              by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:51:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  is this also evil? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lazybum, Shhs

          ORGANIZE early, ORGANIZE often.

          by bicycle Hussein paladin on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:26:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's not about you..... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          ...there is an invisible line in the minds of two or three people who choose suppression over letting the dialog continue.

          Their scurrilous assertions that others are bigots are void for vagueness, but that doesn't stop them from asserting them and derailing the dialog.

          Religion is a sensitive subject, worldwide really. It is sad that we cannot have a debate about the deleterious results of fundamentalist interpretations of religion in this forum.

          But we can't.

          If you hate government, don't run for office.

          by Bensdad on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:56:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your pal didn't say (0+ / 0-)

            "fundamentalist interpretations of religion".

            Unless, of course, he is a fundamentalist himself.
            You have a way of twisting words to fit your bigotry.

            It strikes me as an intellectually very slimy thing to do.

            If your buddy had qualified his statement, that some people use the what is in Koran or the Bible to motivate people to violence, I would not have a problem with that.

            Frankly, I've read and studied the Koran, and the teachings and sayings of Mohammed, and I do believe them to be evil. Flat-out murderous psychotic evil.

            Leaves little to the imagination.

            There are people in this country who call themselves Muslim, and since they believe in the words of the Koran, what conclusion should the reader presume from this statement?

            Are all Muslims evil?
            This is what you are defending.

            •  I disagree with what he has said...... (0+ / 0-)

              .....but I will defend his right to say it and the importance of the community to hear it. You continue to call me a bigot. That is a personal and unjustified attack. And that is against the rules.

              If you hate government, don't run for office.

              by Bensdad on Sat Apr 17, 2010 at 07:43:04 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Well then, talk about the evil in all these books (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, lazybum, Shhs

          Islamophobia (which is what your original remarks read like) has real consequences, in this country, and in our foreign policy.  

          If you want to write a diary about how holy texts from various religions condone violence, slavery, misogyny, etc., I'll be right there with you.  You'll still take criticism, but it could be a worthy topic.  

          But in the absence of a comparative religions context, comments like your first one sound a lot like the kind of crusading, ignorant self-righteousness that leads to violence against Muslims.  Has lead to violence against Muslims.  And that's why it got hide-rates.

          My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

          by cai on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:58:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Your statement (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lazybum, Shhs

          "while condeming all Catholics as cultist brainwashed pedophiles" is unsubstantiated. No one here has ever said such a thing. No one here has ever demonized Catholicism as a religion in the way you assert. It's a strawman.

          That alone is hide rateable on its face.

          Your summary judgment that the Koran is evil is hate speech. It's sort of ironic, you asking for the right to spout hate speech, and impugning my 'kind of Democrat' like it has any meaning to me. Do you think you are insulting me by?

          I'm not a Democrat.
          I'm a Democratic Socialist.

          This place is supposed to have rules against bigotry: your hate speech violates these precepts.

          Your weak attempts to cover your ass with generalizations and double speak now do not absolve you of the hate speech that you posted above.

    •  If there were a Muslim equivalent to the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lazybum, protectspice, Shhs

      Catholic Church, and they were perpetrating and covering up child abuse on a mass scale, then people saying "The Muslimic Church is evil" would be justified.

      But there is, they aren't, and you're a bigot.

      My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

      by cai on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:49:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a distinction without a difference (0+ / 0-)

        Catholicism and Islam are both religions, of more or less equal size.  It is true that there are protestant religions, which also call themselves Christians, who add to the total number of Christians.  But it's certainly not incorrect to say Catholicism is a religion, too.  You're confusing the hierarchy of a church with what constitutes a religion.

        "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

        by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:53:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  NO you are so wrong on that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lazybum

          Catholicism is a forum of Christianity.  Even if you were "right" and Catholicism is its own special religion, Islam still is not the same.  Jeez, Sunni and Shia, totally love each other and believe the same thing right?  Twelthers are the same as Seveners

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:56:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not really (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CherryTheTart

            Catholics believe themselves to be a separate religion than other Christians.  As a confirmed Catholic, whose dad is a Catholic teacher, whose three aunts are Catholic nuns, and who studied this rather intensely most of his life, yes, I feel quite qualified to speak on this.  Protestant faiths, to the Catholic view, aren't really Christians.  Kinda like Vegetarians who eat sushi aren't really Vegetarians.

            But AGAIN, the whole point is not about the religion, its about the holy texts.  The books themselves, not the modern apologist's interpretation of them.

            "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

            by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:00:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fine speak for Catholics, but you don't know (0+ / 0-)

              diddly when it comes to Islam.

              GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

              by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:01:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nor did I claim to (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CherryTheTart, erush1345

                And I didn't comment on the tenants or morality of Islam.  Just the holy books themselves, which any of us can open up, read, and find dozens if not hundreds of examples of bloodthirsty, evil content.  This is absolutely undeniable.  The fact that the Old and New testaments are also filled with such outrageous crap doesn't make the Koran and Hadith any better.  I should be allowed, here of all places, to criticize literary texts, should I not?  Or is using the word "evil" only applicable to, say, Cheney memos?  :P

                "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

                by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:07:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You can criticize books, and I can criticize you (0+ / 0-)

                  when you make god awful and frankly lazy comparisons.

                  GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

                  by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:09:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It still comes down to defending... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CherryTheTart, erush1345

                    ...the indefensible.  We can read and debate the texts of early American scholars, say.  Maybe we'll find some work of Jefferson, who we acknowledge was a smart, even great man, defending slavery.  We can talk about the books as being a "product of their time", perhaps, but in the end, we could pass judgments on their morality.  But when it comes to religious texts, there's a different line drawn.  Millions, or billions, of people believe that their books aren't merely historical relics to be analyzed within the context of their times, but rather holy, unerring, perfect books, written by God himself, or a prophet of God writing on his behalf.  As such, it's difficult to get into a rational discussion of the morality of the texts, because so many people won't even consider the question.  It's the word of God, period.  To me, there is nothing more dangerous than that.

                    "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

                    by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:14:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Straw man, no one is defending (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      shpilk

                      this practice, I frankly don't like broad brushes.  You seem to amply nuance only when you want to.

                      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

                      by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:15:06 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  The Grand Ayatollah is totally like the pope to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lazybum

          all Muslims right?

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:58:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, it isn't. (4+ / 0-)

          Because who is taking criticism now is not "Catholics" but the Catholic Church.  Some of the most furious anger is from Catholics.  You think they're furious with themselves?  No, they're furious with an organization, a bureaucracy, an institutional religious hierarchy, which has betrayed them and raped their children.

          I haven't seen anyone attack lay Catholics with the kind of vitriol you use an example in your original comment.  Because generally, people see the Catholic laity as victims, not perpetrators.

          So your parallel isn't parallel at all.

          My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

          by cai on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:03:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I will certainly add... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart

      ...that it was not my wish to offend anyone with my comments.  I don't claim to have all the answers, but I certainly believe I'm educated and well-read enough to form opinions on the morality of the texts of major religions, the same way I'm equipped to form opinions on the morality of, say, health care legislation.  

      After 9-11, we were hammered relentlessly with the argument that Islam means peace, that the terrorists were a crazy, radical fringe who had distorted the "true meaning" of the Koran, la la la.  And at the same time, the Catholic Church was deemed insalvageable, all priests were child molesters, and anyone who would stay a Catholic after that was a child-rape enabler.  I remember there were occasions where if I mentioned I was Catholic, the person I was talking to would say something like "sick fuck" and turn and walk away.  There was no public defense of MY faith.  Bush didn't go on TV assuring the country that MY faith was 99% innocent and that the kid-diddlers had distorted the "true meaning" of Catholicism.  No, we were on our own.  So yeah, I'll always be a little bitter on the subject.

      "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

      by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:51:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes you are right because again (0+ / 0-)

        Islam totally equals the Catholic Church.

        GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

        by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:52:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Islam and Catholicism are the two largest faiths (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          They have nearly equal followers and adherents worldwide.  Yes, there are additionally some protestant faiths that also consider themselves Christian, but... so what?  If you're comparing Muslims to Catholics, that's a fair comparison, in that I'm complaining about what's in the damn BOOKS, not what each individual believes in their hearts.  Muslims don't believe the same things as their neighbors, nor do Catholics.

          "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

          by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:58:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Muslims don't believe the same thing as other (0+ / 0-)

            Muslims.  What do you think accounts for the sectarian violence in Iraq?  Why do you think there are different shrines?  Have you been paying attention for the past 5 years or so?

            GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

            by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:00:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do you think Catholics believe the same... (0+ / 0-)

              ...as each other?  It's not a monolithic cult.  Catholics are nearly 50/50 on a lot of huge issues, such as abortion, gay rights, even the legitimacy of the Pope.  

              "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

              by cartwrightdale on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:02:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Again, you do not know about Islam. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                cai

                End of story.  Talk about Catholics all you like.  Do you think Seveners believe the same thing as Whabis?

                GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

                by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:04:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Obviously some neighbors in Iraq (0+ / 0-)

            who are the same ethnic group, do not believe the same thing, hence some of the violence.

            GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

            by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:01:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You're not getting it! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ahianne

            One is an organization that has committed crimes.  The other is the entire membership of a faith.

            Sure, compare Catholics to Muslims.  Fine.  But you can't compare the Catholic CHURCH to Muslims.  

            My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

            by cai on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 11:06:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe you should add this to your lexicon (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cai

        Wahhabism

        GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

        by Shhs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:53:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  A weak and pathetic excuse for rank bigotry. (0+ / 0-)
    •  P.S. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lazybum, Shhs, all circuits are busy

      The belief that "Muslims are evil", lesser, etc., has been used to kill (at minimum) hundreds of thousands of them in Iraq and Afghanistan.  It has poisoned our minds as a country, and made our foreign policy psychotic.

      Meanwhile, the evidence that "the Catholic Church is evil" has resulted in some Catholics leaving their churches, some Catholics/former Catholics suing, and a whole lot of angry editorials from within and without that faith.

      When the U.S. starts bombing the Vatican, or Italy, then you'll find people a lot less tolerant of blanket statements about Catholics like that.

      It's context, and consequences, and I entreat you to consider them.

      My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

      by cai on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 10:52:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The bigger point: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, lazybum, cai

        You are trying to compare apples to oranges, to begin with.

        Not one Kossack has ever attacked Catholicism in that context, or more importantly called the Bible or Jesus [or the Trinity] evil here that I have ever seen. It surely is not representative of any widely held viewpoint, in any case.

        This poster specifically called the teachings and sayings of  Mohammed and the Koran evil.

        •  Read them. (0+ / 0-)

          They are evil. But then, the Bible is evil. And Catholicism as taught to me as a girl is evil. There is nothing that is not a mixture of good and evil.

          Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

          I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

          by CherryTheTart on Sat Apr 17, 2010 at 02:45:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The oppression of women is one of the reasons (0+ / 0-)

        the Bush cabal gave for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. We should invade Turkey and spread our democracy to them, too.

        "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." Otto von Bismarck

        by all circuits are busy on Sat Apr 17, 2010 at 01:27:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting how they gave them $millions (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          all circuits are busy

          scant months before, in recognition of their efforts against poppy production.  (Which was BS anyway.)  It's just cover for whoever they want to bomb.

          My comments may not be used for any purpose without explicit permission.

          by cai on Sat Apr 17, 2010 at 04:10:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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