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View Diary: Lowden camp triples down on 'Chickens for Checkups' (334 comments)

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  •  And your living in a fantasy world (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty

    Check this out. Bartering for medical care is a reality. It is happening right now. Is it a sign that our system is broken? Perhaps. But putting our heads in the sand or just pointing and laughing at this looney politican won't change reality.

    Wal*Mart isn't the root of all evil but you can buy the plastic, cadmium-tainted, Chinese knock-off of it there for $4.27

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 01:48:49 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  This gal wants to make it the system of choice (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosette, Vicky, RoyT, Nespolo, Matt Z, Bonsai66, dwayne

      She is proposing this as the solution to our health care woes. That is worthy of all kinds of ridicule. Thank God Daily Kos is here to provide this needed service!

      And you don't even have to trade an egg for it!

      "No, it's all right," said the prospective diner. "The slugs have formed a defensive ring." -- Moving Pictures. Terry Pratchett.

      by wonderful world on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 01:55:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually the AMA is behind bartering in tough (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yellowdog

        economic times. They even have a page up describing how to deal with it and discuss the tax implications. I'm getting a sinking feeling this humor assault could, if you'll excuse me, lay an egg of its own.

        Wal*Mart isn't the root of all evil but you can buy the plastic, cadmium-tainted, Chinese knock-off of it there for $4.27

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 01:56:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Doctor's accountant wouldn't go for it (0+ / 0-)

          in most cases and even if they did........ you might be able to barter something for an office visit but for even a minor procedure or surgery you'd have to be talking about trading in you're Rolex, your Mercedes Benz and your diamonds to get them to accept the deal.

          I ask him if he was warm enough? "Warm," he growled, "I haven't been warm since Bastogne."

          by Unrepentant Liberal on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:24:18 PM PDT

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          •  The IRS certainly doesn't think it is a joke (0+ / 0-)

            and as I stated neither does the AMA nor Medicare which both understand this practice does occur. Or how about the more than 400 companies in the US that work as barter exchange agents making this system function. We might be clucking at the wrong joke here.

            Wal*Mart isn't the root of all evil but you can buy the plastic, cadmium-tainted, Chinese knock-off of it there for $4.27

            by ontheleftcoast on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:28:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •   no. we're not (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mconvente, mediapolitic, Losty, dwayne

              bartering wouldnt be necessary if we had a decent health care system in america.

              So while it may actually be happening, it is NOT a solution and it IS laughable. Especially laughable that a candidate for US Senate would even verbalize it.

              pfft.

              Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I will tell you what you believe. h/t MeteorBlades

              by mdmslle on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:38:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'd be more concerned (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, mconvente, mediapolitic, dwayne

      If she had been less specific with her suggestion, or if she had offered an example of something that's viewed with less humor. Look at the link you provided: the doctors are asking for things like gemstones, precious metals, greenhouses, skilled labor, and computers. If she had said something like "talk to your doctor and see if you can work out a special arrangement" or "If you repair computers for a living, see if your doctor needs one fixed"... absolutely.

      But "chickens" is both something specific and, in a lot of people's eyes, silly. And having something specific and silly can be damaging, because it's an easy soundbite to mock with.

      I hate to say it, but that's why the Dean Scream was so damaging. It was one thing that was easy to point to, and people didn't think about much beyond it.

      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        we let our doctor rehab an injury in our indoor pool during the winter, and might "get something looked at" while she's at the house.

        Free = free.

        Chickens are just the sort of comical item that will show up for the rest of her career as a politician (if it goes beyond the summer) in political cartoons.

        It's just a tangible thing to make fun of.

        klaatu barada nikto

        by JohnGor0 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:16:24 PM PDT

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      •  Actually I found the AMA site which talks (0+ / 0-)

        about this exchange:

        An orthopedist in Wisconsin received a full cow's worth of beef in one barter exchange.

        So she isn't too far off the money, err, livestock. And the rest of the article makes it clear that barter is a reality for many doctors. The jokes are fun but we may be playing into the "liberal elitist" role here.

        Wal*Mart isn't the root of all evil but you can buy the plastic, cadmium-tainted, Chinese knock-off of it there for $4.27

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:31:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're talking SMALL scale, like (0+ / 0-)

          little, little, little. A practice simply cannot operate on these principles. It would result in absolute chaos.

          Do you expect the doctor to go to his/her medical suppliers, pharmacolosits etc. and offer that same cow for the expenses charged to the doctor? It's ludicrous in all but very simple circumstances.

          "Statistics are people with the tears washed away." Sociologist Ruth Sidel

          by Vicky on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 04:05:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  so if i need a 600K brain surgery (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DawnG, Vicky, mconvente, mediapolitic, Losty

      what am i supposed to do?

      besides being ridiculous, this system favors those with SOMETHING VALUEABLE TO BARTER.

      I looked at the link you provided.

      One guy is a DIAMOND AND GEMSTONE DEALER, one guy is a STONE MASON and LANDSCAPER.  

      Good for them.

      On a grand scale how does this work? IF i have a valueable enough good or servie to offer, I then compete with 60,000 other people offering something of value and HOPE i can get my brain surgery?

      Its absurd.

      The REASON people are bartering right now is BECAUSE OF OUR BROKEN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. These people wouldnt be looking to barter if they had insurance or converage they could actually use.

      come on.

      Yes, I'm laughing.

      Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I will tell you what you believe. h/t MeteorBlades

      by mdmslle on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 02:37:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not laughing. (7+ / 0-)

        People are using the fact that bartering EXISTS as a demonstartion that it is a viable option, when the opposite is true.

        It exists BECAUSE the system is broken and people have no alternatives.

        But it's not a solution to any problems, it's mearly a workaround for SOME people.  Everyone else is left dangling.

        •  Agreed, Dawn (0+ / 0-)

          Bartering represents a much simpler social structure.

          If we blow it, at this point in history, maybe we will be back to hunting and gathering or horticulture -- and bartering. But it would be a major social regression.

          "Statistics are people with the tears washed away." Sociologist Ruth Sidel

          by Vicky on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 04:07:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  i agree. (0+ / 0-)

          she warned us not to laugh about it because its happening and was concerned that some rural nevadans would apparently "buy" the barter for healthcare argument.

          I was saying I'm laughing. At her assertion.

          i agree that those who barter only do it b/c of gaps and problems in our system. who barters when they have insurance or money? no one.

          I was laughing b/c she honestly asserted that because its happening the candidate might get traction with such an insane argument.

          Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I will tell you what you believe. h/t MeteorBlades

          by mdmslle on Wed Apr 21, 2010 at 04:58:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Absolutely right! (0+ / 0-)

          My husband and I had this same discussion.  The fact that this exists on a small scale doesn't mean it could be scaled up to cover thousands of people.  Furthermore, as others have pointed out, you need to have something of equal (perceived) value to barter with.  As a solution to HCR this is ridiculous on it's face and she should be laughed off the ballot ASAP.  I hope Harry's numbers start going up.  If not, it means the people of Nevada either aren't paying attention, don't care or are incredibly dumb.

      •  And what if you're in an accident (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mdmslle

        and can't do what you would otherwise barter to do?

        Or worse, you die?

        Who performs the bartered services? You certainly can't - you're either dead or otherwise incapacitated.

        Stupid, stupid idea. For very minor procedures, sure, you might be able to barter something. For life sustaining treatment or surgery? No way. Totally unworkable.

    •  Of 1845 "services" FOUR were Md's (0+ / 0-)

      Of those ... THREE said their "area of service" was "worldwide."

      So ... reality?  Practicality?

      Or maybe "interesting novelty ?"

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