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View Diary: Protests continue in Tucson (with Pix) (294 comments)

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  •  Slight Problem: State's Rights (0+ / 0-)

    the issue here is a state has stepped in to do what the federal government (yes, under Obama's "leadership) refuses to do; i.e. enforce the law.

    this was the likely tipping point with the overall disaster called the U.S./Mexican "border":

    An Arizona rancher who was a fixture in the community was brutally murdered by an alleged illegal immigrant on Saturday night. The Arizona/Mexico border rancher, Robert Krentz met a cruel end after he went out in the middle of the night to investigate strange noises.

    The assassin killed Krentz and his dog before scampering across the Mexican border, according to authorities on the scene. As of late Sunday night Border Patrol trackers were unable to catch the murderer, but will continue the search throughout the night.

    I wonder if I scroll up the diary if there will be one single person who bothered to mention Mr. Krentz and give a damn?

    BTW, don't count on the SCOTUS taking Obama's side on this one.

    http://www.redcounty.com/...

    "Essentially, Obama is irrelevant". Paul Craig Roberts

    by Superpole on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 05:55:56 PM PDT

    •  Yes, we do care about Mr. Krentz (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart, Miggles

      and his family.  At least I give a damn.

      But I also give a damn about everyone else involved on the other side of the border.

      I also give a damn even more about the 4th Amendment.

      "Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people." - Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1821

      by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 06:49:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Soooo, YOU Speak for Everyone on this (0+ / 0-)

        thread, eh?

        doubtful.

        I note you avoided my other rather crucial point: AZ is fed up and is simply doing what the federal government (under Obama) can't or won't do.

        Instead of dealing with a disastrous problem right here in the U.S., Obama stupidly has our troops thousands of miles away-- wasting their time, their lives and our money on attempting to make Afghanistan "safe" for Chinese and U.S. natural gas/oil companies.

        what a weak Load, very weak.

        "sorry" this is not change-- if you're buying it, then you're certainly not much of a "Jeffersonian".

        "Essentially, Obama is irrelevant". Paul Craig Roberts

        by Superpole on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 07:25:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Meh, 1865 pretty much settled (8+ / 0-)

          the question between the states and the federal government.  I don't give a shit if they are fed up or not, they do not have the legal right to violate the US Constitution.  We settled that in the 19th century if you don't remember, and the states who objected were on the wrong side of history.  So you can take your AZ is fed up and, well, do the same as those other treasonous states

          Having said "at least I give a damn", pretty much narrows it down to just me, so no, I am not speaking for every one

          But you know, the violence still ain't shit compared to what I did and saw in southern Honduras and El Salvador in 1988 or in Panama and in 1989.

          If you can't accept my compassion for a rancher, then I say fuck it, but until you've walked through what we did to the neighborhood of El Chorrio in Panama City and  smell and see the burning flesh on twisted metal bunk beds ... don't even try to pull that bullshit with me

          "Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people." - Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1821

          by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 07:39:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for the preview of the republican campaign (4+ / 0-)

          for November.

        •  Under Obama? What did Bush do? (5+ / 0-)

          Or any other president before him?

          That rancher story is what they used to drum up that 70% support we keep hearing about in that Rasmussen poll. Oh no, a white man got killed, so now we have to throw out all the rules and take control of this situation. Be afraid everyone. We have to control the scary mexicans.

          This is racist, republican bullshit. How many Mexicans have been shot by ranchers in the border war? Do you give a shit about even one of them? I care more about that rancher's dog than the people pushing this law have for other human beings.

          The murders of the rancher and his dog were wrong and tragic. Whoever did it, I have no compassion for to be honest. But that does not give Arizona republicans the right to throw aside the constitution, or human decency. You want to stop the killings? Fight to legalize marijuana and reform our national laws to end this stupid wasteful war.

          using this kind of fear mongering to drum up support for racists laws is the tactic. We are familiar with it. It's a fight and you have emotion on your side, but so do we.

          Arizona is better than this. We will not let this law stand.

        •  Bush tried to attend to illegal immigration. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jeffersonian Democrat, JL

          The Diehards made it stop.

          So don't go 'it's all Obama's fault" on us. One: it inusults our intelligence and Two: makes clear that you are a Troll or ignorant. Which is it?

          I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

          by CherryTheTart on Wed Apr 28, 2010 at 12:16:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  There's no actual proof that (6+ / 0-)

      Mr. Krentz was killed by illegals immigrants.  It's just "assumed".  There was another sensational murder on the border last year, and it was assumed to have been committed by illegals.  Turned out it was the Minutemen who did it.

      I don't say that he wasn't killed by border-crossing drug cartels.  But according to the Border Patrol, whoever did it went back into Mexico, and are therefore not in the US.  No amount of checking people's papers would have stopped or caught them.

      •  Yes, and OJ Simpson is Still Looking (0+ / 0-)

        for the "real" killer of his ex wife and her boyfriend.

        WHAT A LOAD.

        your apologist approach to Obama's utter failure to honestly deal with several intertwined, failed U.S. policies gets you nowhere with me.

        zero.

        take your apologies and feeble excuses elsewhere.

        "Essentially, Obama is irrelevant". Paul Craig Roberts

        by Superpole on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 07:20:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  wrong and stupid (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CS in AZ, JL
        •  WHAT A LOAD... (7+ / 0-)

          ... INDEED! That the supposed natural, taken for granted assumption is that an 'illegal' must have killed the man. There is NO PROOF that that is the case. And, if it does turn out to be the case does that then mean that all 'illegals' are murderers? What indeed would it mean besides that one person who happened to be 'illegal' killed another man? Just like many, many 'legal' people kill other 'legal' people every day. A murder, or any other crime does not justify the substance of this 'law' which is a threat to all people of color in Arizona. This murder is irrelevant to the 'law', except that the 'law' panders to certain people's fear and ignorance. The 'law' is irrelevant to the murder. It will not serve justice in any way, shape or form. It will only create more injustice.

          •  Another Pathetic Load (0+ / 0-)

            I note, as usual you fail to address the larger issues here-- One being our border with Mexico is a giant piece of smelly Swiss cheese.

            another being the dismal, pathetic failure of U.S. drug policy; which when indirectly mentioned to Obama-- he LAUGHED.

            failed drug policy is one of the reasons WHY behind the mess-- but when all you want to do is play partisan politics like schoolyard kids, then I guess things like causality don't figure in, right?

            weak, very weak.

            "Essentially, Obama is irrelevant". Paul Craig Roberts

            by Superpole on Wed Apr 28, 2010 at 05:47:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Krentz's brother 'found' a ton of MaryJane? (0+ / 0-)

        I would take a look at the brother. Most people who are murderered are done in by someone they know.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Wed Apr 28, 2010 at 12:13:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  that's another straw man bs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CS in AZ, CherryTheTart, Purdue219

      many people are killed in all states of the union, are immigrants to blame for them all. Do YOU try to mourn every death in every state? No but you and your ilk like McCain will jump on this to demonize and entire people. How do you know it wasn't some white guy escaping from the USA into Mexico?

    •  I live in the county (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      EricS, zett, CS in AZ, AgavePup, CherryTheTart, JL

      where Mr. Krents was killed. The sheriff here has stated that he was killed by a scout for a drug smuggler, not by an undocumented immigrant.

      The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

      by PSzymeczek on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 08:49:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How does he know that? Just curious, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CherryTheTart

        as I had heard that only had footprints leading into Mexico. That could be anyone.

        •  About a week before he was killed (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          EricS, CS in AZ, CherryTheTart, JL

          his brother found about a half ton of pot left on the property and notified the authorities.  The sheriff figures it's a revenge killing for interfering with trade.

          The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

          by PSzymeczek on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 09:17:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ah, I see... thanks (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CherryTheTart

            It's circumstantial but could be true. Certainly more likely than the idea that someone trying to cross into the country to get to a city and find work would have been in any way involved.

            They are using this story as a campaign ad. So I still say we do not know for sure what happened, but we know that in any case it is no excuse for this new law.

            the whole situation is really sad and maddening because the drug war is responsible for so much of the killing and fighting on the border, and yet immigrant workers who are peaceful and not involved in it are getting the blame and ranchers down there hunt them in the desert with impunity. It is crazy stuff going on.

    •  Shauna Forde (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CS in AZ, AgavePup, CherryTheTart, JL

      Remember her? She and her buddies killed a little girl because she was brown.

    •  My spidey sense says you are a racist troll. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart, JL

      Having a policy does not mean receiving care. -- Tzimisce

      by Miggles on Tue Apr 27, 2010 at 09:38:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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