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View Diary: Black Ops in Venezuela? Very Deeply Troubling (213 comments)

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  •  So the answer is to take their land ? (none)
    What are you an anarchist ?
    •  Don't be obtuse (4.00)
      Land reform takes a variety of forms, under a variety of government philosophies. You don't like land seizures - countries with colonial legacies don't like foreign ownership of their land.

      Stop red-baiting (or black-flag-baiting, I guess). If you have a point, make it. Otherwise take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard.

      A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Ratcliffe

      by wickerman26 on Wed Jan 19, 2005 at 04:15:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not trying to bait you (2.60)
        I'm just trying to defend private land ownership rights. Venezuela became independent in 1811 and the El Charcote was bought in 1903. I don't care about anti colonial sentiment. I care about the law, and you should too. As I said before, we are living on Native American land. If you feel so strongly about displacing natives, you should donate your home to a local Indian Tribe. If you don't own your home, set aside a portion of your rent for a college fund that benefits Native American youth. What's good enough for foreign land owners in South America should be good enough for you too.
        •  I'm sure Chavez will give Lord Spam Vestey (4.00)
          a fair price for his land.  

          They have something similar in this country. Its called "emminent domain".  

          Ever hear of the concept? George W Bush used it in Texas a while back to get a hold of  some private land for a professional baseball park.

        •  Huh? (4.00)
          How does pointing out that you crossed a line get you to where you think I don't care about law?

          I believe in private property - I think the desire to hold on to 'things' is too deeply rooted in the human psyche to simply banish. However, that isn't the issue here: Chavez gave the government power to redistribute land. He is doing so. There is a system in place to redress grievances.

          Was this done legitimately or not? That is open to question. Personally, I'm inclined to be more sympathetic to Chavez's point of view than an agribusiness firm's. You clearly feel that business has the legitimate claim.

          I would like to ask a question, though - was the purchase of the ranch done before or after British and German warships shelled Venezuala's coast for non-payment of their debt? This also happened in 1903.

          Was this done legitimately or not? That also appears (at first glance) to be open to question.

          A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Ratcliffe

          by wickerman26 on Wed Jan 19, 2005 at 05:01:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  U.S. is not like developing countries (none)
          You make the mistake of assuming that our situation is just like that of Latin American nations with many, many poor.

          I used to live in Guatemala.  The Mayan Indians comprise 50-60% of the population there.  The situations are completely different between the U.S. and Guatemala.  I suspect many of the same differences exist between the U.S. and Venezuela.

          I think that land reform, which Mexico implemented in 1910, for the most part is a mistake.  But do not blithely dismiss the forces of reform as anarchists. If your sympathies lie more with large corporations over the very poor, you should spend some time in a developing nation among the poor.

        •  interesting (4.00)
          El Charcote was bought in 1903.

          and

          1902 - Venezuela fails to repay loans and, as a result, its ports are blockaded by British, Italian and German warships.bbc

          I'm sure it's just coincidence...perhaps bought should be "bought".

        •  I have. (4.00)
          And I have managed to buy over 2,000 acres and return them to ownership of Native Americans in this country.  

          "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King, Jr

          by SarahLee on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 02:41:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I admire (none)
            your generous deed. Your money and mouth are on the same page.
            •  Thanks (none)
              Did not do it all at once, but over the course of 20 plus years.  I look for farmers or ranchers on reservation borders or within the checkerboards that many are and friends and I buy what we can and when paid for, gift them to the tribes or individual families to return to trust status.

              "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King, Jr

              by SarahLee on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 04:37:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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