Skip to main content

View Diary: Black Ops in Venezuela? Very Deeply Troubling (213 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Excuse me, but that's just nonsense. (4.00)
    To be more specific: dangerous, silly, paranoid nonsense.

    China is not waging any sort of economic war on the US. They are having their Industrial Revolution, at long last... a century or two after Europe. They are learning how capitalism works, and it seems they are turning out to be quite good at it. That's all. They don't want to destroy the US. They don't even want to destroy your prosperity; you are too good a market for them to want you to disappear -- and besides, for now, they're deeply committed to the US dollar.

    What you are seeing is not malice against the US. It is the side effect of a gigantic country entering the global economy. There are going to be disruptions, but, in the end, the rest of us are just going to have to find a way to shuffle over and make room on the bench. Do you think the US government should take some action to keep them out of it? To keep them poor, maybe, and producing no exports?

    If so, well.. I would suggest you remember King Canute's lesson to his courtiers. No government has the power to hold back the tide.

    Massacre is not a family value.

    by Canadian Reader on Wed Jan 19, 2005 at 07:19:35 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, but... (4.00)
      it feels like war.

      Perception is everything.

      While most of the world perceives the United States as a warmongering imperialist danger to the planet, the United States and a few of its stupider allies perceive itself as being the good guys.

      Not hat I'm drawing a parallel beteen the U.S. and China here -- just an illustration of the perception issue.

      Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

      by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 03:39:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A mistaken perception (4.00)
        can cause disaster to the perceiver. In both cases.

        I think it is very important for discussion here, at least, to be reality-based. (Maybe it will spread, who knows? Stranger things have happened.)

        Democrats must not fall into the trap of blaming China, and the Chinese, for economic dislocation in the US. China is entering the global market, and yes, that changes things in large ways, but it won't help at all to rouse public hostility against China. Unless China shoots itself in the foot (again!) our grandchildren will still live in a world where China has long been an established economic power.

        And the US probably won't be the world's only economic superpower, by then. That won't be so terrible. Lots of countries manage just fine without that status. What's really worrying is how the US will react to demotion to the position of "just another nation." It is particularly dangerous to allow the metaphor of War to take hold about the transition, because that will trigger all sorts of counterproductive reactions.

        Blame will not help. Developing adaptation strategies, will.

        After all, think about the disastrous policy mistakes that have been caused by allowing the effort to reduce terrorism to be called a war.

        Massacre is not a family value.

        by Canadian Reader on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 05:54:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Blame (none)
          lies entirely with this administration.  Rather than working cooperatively and more effectively with what will be the largest single economy in the world within a decade to the benefit of our economy and theirs, this administration fails to see that they have set up this adversarial relationship EASILY.  This administration is completely blind to the competition, or is in complete denial.

          Think very carefully about the relationship that CANADA has with the U.S. today versus the U.S. of five years ago.  Tell me that Canadians feel more warmly towards this administration, let alone the people here.  What have our trade and foreign policies done to Canada's opinion of its closest neighbor?  And the U.S. isn't even rattling sabres in Canada's general direction.

          China, on the other hand, has had numerous threats against them from the U.S.; the recent planning of joint war exercises with Russia aren't exactly a warming endorsement of U.S.-Sino relations.  The U.S. poses an enormous risk to China because of its hostility towards North Korea, hostility resulting solely from the Bush administration's decision to unilaterally withdraw diplomatically from North Korea in 2001.  Should North Korea get uglier, the mess will be on China's doorstep and will threaten China's economic stability.

          I do not fault the Chinese at all.  Our armed forces read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" for good reason; Sun Tzu is and remains one of the world's foremost strategists.  In fact, we may be mired in Iraq over this administration's inability to understand Sun Tzu's teachings.  The best war is one in which no weapons are used, where the threat of weaponry holds opponents at bay.  It worked for a long time in Iraq.  And in China's case via the use of unrestricted economic warfare, it works two-fold -- by encouraging the continued development of their people and the suppression of the largest threat to their nation.  The largest threat to the Chinese economy next to uncontrolled expansion is the U.S.; I can't blame them one bit for taking effective measures.

          What would Canada do about it if it had the potential to become the largest economic power in the world within a decade, held an enormous amount of U.S. debt and currency, needed all the resources that the U.S. hordes and consumes for itself for the development of Canadians?  Under those circumstances I certainly wouldn't BLAME Canadians were they shrewd enough to swat down the U.S. without weaponry...but I certainly would have a problem with an administration that failed to see that coming.

          •  Who can fault them? (none)
            Note this bit on China from WorldChanging:

            http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/001983.html

            Who can fault China for engaging in an unrestricted economic war?  It's a matter of survival for them, their development will be stymied if they cannot claim a greater share of resources for a much larger population.  Their other alternative is leapfrogging to other technologies, but that would again be to our detriment here in the U.S. as we would become a net importer of technology rather than an exporter.

            One of the biggest problems we have right now is that we are no longer a major source of innovation.  We cannot create more new jobs for our citizens because we've failed to invest in innovation, instead encouraging exporting of jobs.  When we begin to see investment in our innovation as key to national security, a number of problems will fade -- take fuel cell technology, for example.

            Were fuel cell technology to get the needed incentives, it would completely remake the automotive industry, creating jobs for people here in the U.S., free us from dependence on foreign oil, make us a net exporter of goods, services and technology once again.  That's how we fight this battle.

            But the grownups have left the building.

      •  That's part of the puppet show (4.00)
        Given the economic ties between China and the U.S., I really doubt we're planning on destroying each other - who would buy all their stuff? Who would make all our stuff? WalMart lives and breathes China, and was the largest contributor to Bush's campaign. The war is between the ultra-rich elite vs. everybody else, and it always has been. They want your labor, they want your money and they want your mind, and the puppet shows they put on help them achieve these goals. They're damn good at what they do.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site