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View Diary: A Possible Opening for U.S. Peace Efforts in the Middle East (205 comments)

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  •  Ummm ok ... not my point but ok (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hikerbiker, canadian gal

    My point was that we at least try to take into account your opinions. You guys could give a rats ass about us or what we think.

    "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

    by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:12:27 PM PDT

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    •  Right. Exactly. (4+ / 0-)

      That's why I support the two-state solution. Because I don't give a rat's ass about what "you" think.

      Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

      by unspeakable on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:13:25 PM PDT

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      •  Remember you... (5+ / 0-)

        ...don't support the two state solution for the right reasons, though.  To really support the two state solution, you need to validate the birth and creation of Israel.  You need to see it the way Zionists see it.

        Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

        by Alec82 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:17:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wait now you support the Two State (0+ / 0-)

        solution.... Your posts of late have been extremely negative towards it as well as saying you you used to support it but now not so much. You have me confused.

        Where do you stand on this?

        "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

        by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:22:59 PM PDT

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        •  This is why I keep telling you (5+ / 0-)

          to stop boxing your own shadows. I have been very, very clear about what I support in terms of a two-state solution, but for whatever reason the I-siders refuse to understand.

          I am not OK with anything that Israel is prepared to offer because it will result in a statelet dependent on Israeli dictats. I support a Palestinian state that has complete and total sovereignty, independence, and viability. The problem is that Israel, and not just this government, is opposed to this. I hope that opposition ends, but I'm not holding my breath.

          Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

          by unspeakable on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:48:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I disagree that you have been clear (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JNEREBEL

            but I am heartened by your post. So what do you think would be a fair proposal that Israel could offer?

            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

            by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:58:46 PM PDT

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            •  How much clearer does he (4+ / 0-)

              need to be?

              We are out to defeat injustice and not white persons who may be unjust. -MLK Jr.

              by soysauce on Fri May 14, 2010 at 09:02:40 AM PDT

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              •  Two of the first five (4+ / 0-)

                comments were in response to him, where I explicitly say that I support the two-state solution and he acknowledges it. Now all of a sudden, it's time to pretend that I never said it before.

                And right now, he, canadian gal, and hikerbiker are all accusing us of supposedly distorting their views. Some effing nerve.

                Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 10:51:13 AM PDT

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                •  YEAH.... YOU TELL ME! (0+ / 0-)

                  Hey here you are twisting my words again. Now let me demonstrate using exact quotes:

                  Two of the first five comments were in response to him, where I explicitly say that I support the two-state solution and he acknowledges it. Now all of a sudden, it's time to pretend that I never said it before (bold vb1 emphasis)

                  Here I am in this diary pretending that unspeakable never supported the Two-State solution:

                  Your posts of late have been extremely negative towards it as well as saying you you used to support it but now not so much

                  I know you used to support and apparently you still do - I just remember a post saying that your weren't so sure at this point. BUT I never said you don't support it I said lately you haven't been clear. Although I will say that soy pointed to some good quotes from 5/7 saying you do support it.

                  "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                  by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 11:08:58 AM PDT

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                  •  Last WEEK! (4+ / 0-)

                    I said it last week in your own fucking diary in response to you. You even acknowledged it.

                    I have been opposed to the two-state proposals that Israel keeps trying hawk, but that's always been my position.

                    Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                    by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 11:17:29 AM PDT

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                    •  I did acknowlegde it (0+ / 0-)

                      and I acknowledge it again. AND I DID in my last comment. For some reason, I thought I saw a comment that you made (or rec.'d) stating that while you used to be in favor of it now you were not so sure.

                      That led to my comment. If I am wrong and you did not make or rec. that comment I apologize.

                      "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                      by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 11:31:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  And by Volley's logic... (4+ / 0-)

                      ....if you say you support something, then you support something.  No ifs, ands or buts about it.  You cannot ever be questioned on this point; indeed, the allusion to you "saying" you support the two state solution while being "extremely negative towards it" sounds almost like, I don't know, an attempt to distinguish between stated and revealed preferences? But we know that those are off limits.

                      Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

                      by Alec82 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 12:30:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It's what a handful of users have been doing (5+ / 0-)

                        for a while now, but especially this past week.

                        I must constantly prove that I don't want to kill or I don't want others to kill Israelis. I must constantly prove that I'm a "moderate." If I so much as uprate a comment saying that because of recent events, they no longer support a two-state solution, no matter how many times I explicitly state that I support two states, I am automatically a supporter of one state and denier of the Jewish right to a "Jewish National Homeland." If I uprate a comment talking about how Palestinians are being taught about self-defense, no matter how many times I say I want nonviolent struggle, I am accused of supporting violence against Israelis.

                        If anything has changed as some people want to claim, it's my unwillingness to deal with this bullshit anymore. That is the radical shift, I think. I, and I hope others as well, am unwilling to play nice with people who view me as a trojan horse, who constantly wonder if I'm telling the truth or deviously deceiving them.

                        Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                        by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 01:15:25 PM PDT

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                        •  Many wanted to believe unspeakable (5+ / 0-)

                          that you represented a kind of Palestinian they could make peace with, one who could accept Israeli terms for peace.  They misjudged you because you are kind and open.  You are a lot like Rashid Hussein.  There is a long line of history to this search for the "reasonable" Palestinian.  What they don't want to come to grips with is that we are unreasonable about giving up our human rights.

                          We are out to defeat injustice and not white persons who may be unjust. -MLK Jr.

                          by soysauce on Fri May 14, 2010 at 01:27:08 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Drats! Foiled again (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            If it weren't for you kids and that pesky dog......

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 01:52:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  See? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Fire bad tree pretty

                            Nothing but personal attacks against people you disagree with, who have said not attacked you first.

                            No matter how many time I say I support the two-state solution, I'll always be suspect in your and others' eyes. That's how it works here. You distort my comments and even after I explain them and you acknowledge it, you uprate other distortions.

                            I am so sick of having to prove myself to you guys. Because I know no matter how many times I say otherwise, you will always come back and say I don't give a shit about Jews. So why should I continue to say that I do?

                            You and your buddies want to talk about alienation? You've all done a wonderful a job on me.

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:08:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sigh..... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            Sadly all I will tell you is that I disagree but according to Alec and other Team P keyboard warriors, no matter what I say will be twisted... SO...

                            Sorry it has all worked out like this. I really am.

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:20:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're part of the reason (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Fire bad tree pretty

                            it's "worked out" this way.

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:22:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And so are you. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            I know the role I have played, and one thing I do think is that while things are more hostile they are more honest as well.

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:23:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Of course I am. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Fire bad tree pretty

                            But I don't pretend that I'm not, which is what you and the others on your side do.

                            I'm more honest to the constant accusations against me, yes. I'm more honest about the bullshit you and others have thrown at me. I'm more honest about not appreciating the lies that no one on my side (except for me, of course) criticizes Arab leaders. I'm more honest about taking offense with attacks on my and others' mental health. I'm more honest about not letting these ugly displays by people on your side go, including accusations that we're rightwing for supporting BDS. If that means, more hostility, fine.

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:29:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well you certainly can think whatever you like (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            I wish you luck in your fantasy.

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:41:23 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And more of the same. (0+ / 0-)

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:42:22 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And really, (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Alec82, Fire bad tree pretty

                            you've twisted so many people's words here, even excluding mine, that you have no right to accuse anyone else of doing the same thing. Just look at this comment, where you turn what Alec said into something about prophecy and being able to predict the future.

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:39:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL wow.... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            First of all I was making a snarky remark around the word "revealed". Jeez do you have a sense of humor at all??? And even if it wasn't funny I would think that you can still recognize a failed snark.

                            You are twisting more than an Oklahoma Tornado man... My point to Alec is that opposing a Craptastic ASUC vote or opposing BDS is NOT the same as supporting the occupation. But, Alec keeps telling me about my "revealed" positions as if his interpretation and the truth existed in the same dimension.

                            That comment was heavy on snark and not much else but thanks for making it so much more.

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:47:32 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You see. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Alec82, Fire bad tree pretty

                            That wasn't what he was saying at all. I mean, not even close.

                            It was in relation to my own comments, and how you've said that if someone says they supports something, then there is no question that they support. All the while ignoring the many times that I've said that I support the two-state solution and constantly claiming I support one-state.  To be clear, I'm not offended by this claim because I don't believe the majority of people who support one state are bad. I'm offended by the dishonesty and the constant distortion/ignoring of my words

                            What you're doing isn't just humor. It's mockery of everyone who disagrees with you. And considering what you were mocking had nothing to do with what was being said, I would say there was a lot of distortion there.

                            Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

                            by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:55:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow again (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            livosh1

                            sorry but I see that as something totally different than you do.

                            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                            by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:59:30 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Amen Brother Alec.... (0+ / 0-)

                        Revealed Preferences .... is that like Revealed Prophecy? LOL - and what fine interpretation of revealed events. You truly read the signs well.

                        "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                        by volleyboy1 on Fri May 14, 2010 at 01:20:16 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  bingo. n/t (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JNEREBEL, volleyboy1, canadian gal

      Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

      by hikerbiker on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:28:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't care what you think? That's fine.

        Like I said, all you've been doing this week is distorting what I'm saying. If your goal was to alienate me and piss me off for the no reason over the past several days, you've accomplished it. Congratulations.

        Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice. -- Clark's Law

        by unspeakable on Fri May 14, 2010 at 08:43:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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